Thought i might mention the engine 968 engines that put out 875hp build by bob norwood

 

Randy,

The conversion by no means is cheap. The guys at Renegade Hybrids want around $10,000 for the labor and you supply the engine and parts.

The last time I looked into doing the conversion a 530 horsepower iron small block 383 Chevy motor was around $8,000 to $10,000. The people that make these high horsepower realatively inexpensive, for the power output, Chevy engines say they will last around 30,000 to 40,000 miles driven on the street but will not be very streetable. Every engine builder and racer has expressed the same opinions on these high horsepower Chevy small blocks.

You can bolt a supercharger to a stock 928 S4 motor and see that type of power with a normal idle and no driveability issues as well as having an engine that will probably still last another 100,000 miles or more. Not to mention, you can pocket the $17,000 difference it will cost you to convert your car to the Chevy motor.

I seriously looked into doing the conversion but I decided the price to do the conversion and get the power I wanted wouldn't be much less expensive than modding the Porsche motor. I even called George and talked to him in great detail on his Swamp Monster and costs involved. Needless to say, he has an absolute fortune in that motor with all the titanium parts and the best of everything on the market. His car is awsome but it wasn't cheap by any means.

Horsepower is horsepower and torque is torque. There is no replacement for displacement. Torque wins races and horsepower wins buyers. Granted there are many people with trumped-up muntant ninja horsepower around the block but you can't refute a Dyno Jet chassis dyno and its results - even NASCAR uses them for you Chevy fans. There are many people putting out 1000 horsepower from these import cars. Go to an import drag race and check-out the 1/4 mile times they are running with these small displacement motors.

A Chevy motor will not put out more power just because it is a Chevy. Decades of development and millions of hours have gone into making the improvements in design that enable the Chevy engine to produce the power that you see in the races and on the street. The major design improvements have all come in head and intake design. Just like any motor if the heads don't flow the car won't go.

I recall a certain Porsche 917 that held the fastest recorded speed on a US track for something like 20 years. Not until the Indy cars of recent times did another car run faster. That Porsche certainly wasn't using a small block Chevy motor to set the record.

I think you are horribly wrong to think that only the US can build a motor with high horsepower that is fast. If you really think this way, then please go and get a Chevy motor in your Porsche and stop talking. I say go for it and more power to ya with your Chevy motor but please stop bashing the foreign engineering if you drive a foreign car. Not only does one sound completely ignorant but they also come off as a total hypocrite.

Why do you think there are so many foreign cars on US roads? The US stopped making cars and engines that were worth a hoot for almost twenty years. If it weren't for these foreign cars, US vehicles would still be a total piece of crap like they were through most of the 70's and into the 80's.

 

I really don't know much about any of this stuff, but here is something to consider. I am looking at the cover of the December 2002 issue of "Turbo & High-Tech Performance"

There is a 949RWHP street legal Supra running a 9.002 @160 MPH in the NHRA Street tire class. Single GReddy T88H on the 2JZ-GTE engine. It has 325/50 BFGoodrich Drag Radials. It looks to turn about 8200rpms. I can try to scan the article in if any one is interested.

Because of figures like this you will rarely find a 6 speed Twin Turbo Supra, even a 94 with 100k mi, for less than 30 to $35k. I have heard many times that $500 dollars spent gets it up to 500 HP. I drove a 94 6 speed with 95k mi on it recently. Man it was quick. They wanted 35K. The quality is NOTHING close to the 928. I was glad to get back in the shark.
Andy K

 

<a href="http://www.titanmotorsports.com/900160mph.html" target="_blank">HERE</a> is a link to a video of the Supra I wrote of.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Andy K

 

Randy, thanks for correcting that, don't know why I put "jags that run" brain fart I guess.
As far as motors go and power, I guess I'm a horsepower *****. I don't care what the
name is on the valve cover, as long as it makes power. I used to think chevy's ruled the
world, until one day I realized that my "chevy" did not have one single chevy part in it.
Now I leave the stomping and crying to those who are under the disillusion that "their"
auto manufacturer of choice is now and forever shall be the greatest.

 

Monster thanks for the answer. Aren't you in the least tempted to see what that bad boy would run in the quarter though? Even once?

 

Jim, 30 to 40 thousand miles? Get rid of those 1978 motor trends. But if that were true, look at this it this way, first these 500+ hp 928 motors you are referring to are like bigfoot. I've heard about them but I havent seen them. Second, what makes you think that our motors will go go hundreds of thousands of miles at that output level without freshening up? The uninformed will tout this kind of stuff but I havent seen it. Look on the 911 boards, these high hp motors dont last very long. And thats with a motor that has countless hours and dollars of development, unlike ours. The difference is when freshen-up time comes as it most definitely will for both, the Chevy will cost about 1/5 as much to do.

As for the Supra, 9.00 is fast. But their claim of the drag radial record is bull****. It might be the 6 cyl record or the import record. In the NMRA drag radial class 8 second runs are commonplace and the record belongs to Dwayne "Big Daddy" Gutridge at 8.53. And for those that dont know, a half a second looks like all day when you're drag racing. I don't know how much "steet" time that Supra gets but I know there are a number of 8.80 street Mustangs that thinks 6 cylinders are for mini-vans and would break his heart.

 

Kaz, Yeah I'm sure it will see the 1/4 sooner or later. It has 3.90 rear gears so it ought to really run on the big end.

 

The Bastard has been blown for nearly 20 years and the motor has never even been opened up to do any kind of modifications inside. I trust Jim's opinion. To make that kind of HP out of a NA engine (any of them) takes lots of compression, placing wear on most of the components all of the time. With a turbo, you only run the extra pressure when it is needed, off boost the car still idles and drives like a stock car.

I discussed some of this with the Renegade guys, who in my opinion, falsely state the costs to make such a conversion. They don't mention the cost to install, wire and all of the other crap you have to do to make it all work. WHat about exhausts? The do mention how expensive and lousy Porsche engines are, yet rave about the transmissions. Trust me, if they could fit a Chevy transmission in the place of the Porsche, they would slam them too. Their business is about making money.

Lots of positive manifold pressure options for both the 944 and 928 now. The Renegade route would be the fastest way to see the car into a junkyard.

 

As for the 850 HP 911 twin I mentioned, it is done by Gembella, called the 750 Evo or something like this. I think the 850 was recorded on a chassis dyno at the rear wheels...

It also states that there is no way to use it on the street and only a handful of people could even begin to handle it on a track. Maybe at the drage most of us could, but on track I am sure it is a handful.

Once you get over 500 HP on the street, well the car gets dangerous...

 

John are you inferring that your motor is making 500+ hp? Cause I don't think the combination you described for your car is good for 500 hp. Additionally you've said several times that you only run a few pounds of boost. It stands to reason that a turbo or SC will not affect wear at all if you dont turn up the boost. But turn it up to the 500 hp level and then talk to me. Do you really think a 500 hp 4.7 will last 20 years? I have to call bull**** on that one. As far as compression ratios, George is over 500 hp from 350 inches at 10.5 to 1. I f that Porsche has 850 rwh it has 2 engines.

As for transmissions, there already is someone installing C5 transaxles in 928's. In my oppinion this is probably the single best modification that can be done to a 928. It eliminates the ridiculously high final drive ratio problem, gives 6 speeds and has shift linkage that feels like a rifle bolt. And before you say why dont I do it, believe me, the thought of installing an sb Chevy was on my mind when I bought the car. A 928 with a stout small block and a C5 6 speed would probably be the fastest 928 on the planet and one of the fastest street Porsches on the planet. C5 drive train, Porsche suspension = having your cake & eating it too. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

 

 

I don't even want a part of this thread, because I can't compare ccm or ci's, but I just thought it was funny how carlos kept mentioning georges car. Makes ya wonder where george is when it comes down to something interesting.

 

I'm sitting in the stagging lanes on this topic. I have already spoke my peace on this subject many times. Monster have you ever run clash of the titans? I went to the first one in san antonio this past september. I ran my super street outlaw car 8.09 @176mph went to the semi finals only to break a blower belt.
Well now is a good time as any to break the latest update on the swamp monster. I pulled the engine out tuesday to put a 3.6 turbo motor back in. The power of the small block V-8 was a little to much for me to handle, all jokes aside. I'm putting a 383 stroker kit in it. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> about 600hp I can't wait. I will dyno next week and have the swamp monster back in time to ruin somebodys chrismas or new year at the next redlight. The reason I pulled the motor was because I burnt the kevlar clutch up, so while I have the motor out more power was only $1200.00 dollars away. I will put a porsche race copper puck clutch that should do the trick I hope. I have tried many clutch combos from the centerforce race to the turbo to the kevlar all the same outcome slipping on the top end of third gear @ 120mph.
I bought a complete scat stroker kit: crank, pistons and rods for less than a timing belt on a 928 motor.


<a href="http://pws.prserv.net/4play/911chevy/index.html" target="_blank">SWAMP MONSTER</a>

 

My timing belt was about $50.00, plus 5 hours labor...did the pump too. Never said the Bastard made 500 Hp, because it doesn't, even though Callaway claimed 550 in their literature. Realistically, it is about 400 at the crank, perhaps more or less, I don't really know. Boost is 8.5 psig.

Carlos, somehow Lingenfelter holds high respect in your opinion, but not Callaway. Remember the Sledgehammer Vette? Top end was close to 150 MPH. Trust me, there were German made internals in that engine, if you doubt it read up on Callaway's website. I'm sure Callaways massaged supernautural Chevy engine could outlast (probably two fold) anything in the rear of the Swamp Monster.

If you are after cheap performance, then just buy the C5, I mean by the time you are done butchering your 928 you could have purchased a new C5 and have money left over.

As for the fastest 928, well that belongs to Devek and is well documented. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think the Swamp Monster competes in any of these high speed races.

We hear of this Swamp Monster and we have all asked to see Dyno sheets or performance figures....we've been asking for years and there is still nothing but talk. This makes me want to dyno the Bastard to see what the real power to the road is, but I don't know of a good dyno shop here in Cincinnati.

George, why don't you take the Swamp Monster to the track and record a couple of laps or runs in it, then we will all know how much of an animal it really is.

Carlos, just go out and buy the C5, in the end you will be much happier.

Myself, I don't ever plan on changing pistons and the like....too much time to even bother with it...unless my motor grenades, who knows.