Federalizing a 928
12-07-2002 | 07:00 AM
#16
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From: Pflugerville, TX
WOW!!
My first post on the list and SO much good advice. Thankyou to everybody.
It has been suggested to me that if I contact Porsche themselves, they may be able to officially itemise the differences between US and Euro spec. If for example, safety and emissions are the same, obviously there's money saved on items that don't need doing.
Alternatively, there ARE US spec cars occasionally for sale here. Also, with the first 928s now over 25 years old, I could get one of them. You can import a car over 25 years old with NO mods. Nothing. Since 928s are well built, corrosion, even in Germany is never a problem unless you get an accident-damaged one. The ineriors stand up better in Europe, since the sun isn't as harsh as many places stateside. So you don't get leather shrinking off the dash like say on a CA or TX car. And as for the higher speeds we can drive in Germany - that's what the cars were built for and as long as regular servicing and the occasional rebuild is done, the major stuff lasts.
For example: My last 928 was an 84 model with 310 hp and ABS (very useful for emergency braking at 160mph+) It didn't miss a beat. Bought it with full history at 290,000 km, kept up the maintenance, sold it at 315,000km for the same as I paid for it.
Again, thanks to all and I'll keep you posted as to what transpires.
Best V8 regards,
Mark
My first post on the list and SO much good advice. Thankyou to everybody.
It has been suggested to me that if I contact Porsche themselves, they may be able to officially itemise the differences between US and Euro spec. If for example, safety and emissions are the same, obviously there's money saved on items that don't need doing.
Alternatively, there ARE US spec cars occasionally for sale here. Also, with the first 928s now over 25 years old, I could get one of them. You can import a car over 25 years old with NO mods. Nothing. Since 928s are well built, corrosion, even in Germany is never a problem unless you get an accident-damaged one. The ineriors stand up better in Europe, since the sun isn't as harsh as many places stateside. So you don't get leather shrinking off the dash like say on a CA or TX car. And as for the higher speeds we can drive in Germany - that's what the cars were built for and as long as regular servicing and the occasional rebuild is done, the major stuff lasts.
For example: My last 928 was an 84 model with 310 hp and ABS (very useful for emergency braking at 160mph+) It didn't miss a beat. Bought it with full history at 290,000 km, kept up the maintenance, sold it at 315,000km for the same as I paid for it.
Again, thanks to all and I'll keep you posted as to what transpires.
Best V8 regards,
Mark
12-07-2002 | 07:33 AM
#17
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From: Silly Valley, CA
Mark:
Just keep in mind that when you bring it over here, the emissions testing is the same as for a brand new, off the production line car - they say that you can only pass with brand new factroy cats. And these are expensive as hell...
Did you read this article? <a href="http://www.hcrpca.org/newsletter/200108/page11.html" target="_blank">Importing A '92 928GTS </a>
Best of luck!
Nicole
(lived in Germany for 28 years...)
Just keep in mind that when you bring it over here, the emissions testing is the same as for a brand new, off the production line car - they say that you can only pass with brand new factroy cats. And these are expensive as hell...
Did you read this article? <a href="http://www.hcrpca.org/newsletter/200108/page11.html" target="_blank">Importing A '92 928GTS </a>
Best of luck!
Nicole
(lived in Germany for 28 years...)
12-07-2002 | 04:00 PM
#18
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From: IN BETWEEN A FROZEN CONCOCTION AND INDECISION
Great article! Thanks Nicole for posting it. Has James posted a picture of his 92GTS import project before...James?
I could not imagine the feeling of doing 165mph on the "bahn" in Germany.
Tim Delarm
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
I could not imagine the feeling of doing 165mph on the "bahn" in Germany.
Tim Delarm
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
12-07-2002 | 06:02 PM
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From: Silly Valley, CA
Tim:
I've done 155mph - as a passenger in a 968 convertible with (ahem...) snow tires. The top was up, of course - it was Christmas time. It felt like going on rails. Until the tires started smelling. Then my friend slowed down.
The fastest I've ever driven myself on the autobahn was about 140mph in a BMW 750i. My 928 has seen 143, but not in Germany. In both cases, I felt like I was on rails. But the lanes do seem to get narrower the faster you go - expecially once you exceed 110mph...
These speeds sound astronomic to us here in the US, because we are used to cars going slower, and many Calfornia Freeways are comparable to roads in third world countries (Sorry, dear patriots, but Caltrans IS totally incompetent - the quality of even some newly paved roads can serve as a justification for the purchase of a gas guzzling SUV).
But keep in mind that the German government recommends 85mph as a reasonable speed on the Autobahn - more than most speed limits States side. The lanes are about 2" wider than here in California, and the quality of the road surfaces is comparable to good race tracks.
I like the guard rails, which I sometimes miss on rural Freeways. Especially, I find it scary when there is no guard rail between the two directions of traffic. What if a car, a truck, or just a lost wheel, makes it into the lanes for the other directon of traffic?
Autobahn drivers use an offset driving technique to see further ahead - it works, because of the wider lanes. One car drives towards the right of the lane, the next to the left, the next to the right again, and so on. You can see much futher ahead that way.
The downside is that you are not allowed to pass on the right. For example, if you have a slow idiot in the fast lane, you can flash your high beams or set your turn signal to the left, but if he doesn't change lanes you are not allowed to pass him on the right (Police can take your license, if they catch you). There are very few exceptions when passing on the right is allowed on an Autobahn.
Unfortunately, people tailgate just like everywhere, and Police has an eye on this. Not only do they have camera systems on bridges, they also have unmarked high performance cars with sophisticaated video systems. These go after heavy offenders, but might take their licenses on the spot. One of their unmarked cars is a red 911. These vehicles are rotated between different Autobahn Police stations, and have a variety of license plates to change back and forth. They are almost impossible to detect.
What am I trying to say? You can have a lot of fun driving there, but it is expected that you know and play by the rules. I believe, the discipline of most drivers, along with the quality of the roads and the high technical standards (Germany has probably the strictest vehicle inspection in the world) makes it safe for everyone.
This might be the reason why there are much less accidents per mile driven in Germany than in the US.
There is a book on that topic, called "American Autobahn", by Mark Rasz (you might put it on your Christmas wish list). He researched all of those differences, and came to the conclusion that the strict speed limits in America actually CAUSE more accidents and deaths...
I have said many times that I feel safer at 120mph on a German Autobahn, than on a Bay Area freeway. But that's not a determining factor when it comes to choosing a place to live. In January, I will have survived 10 years without an Autobahn close-by!
I've done 155mph - as a passenger in a 968 convertible with (ahem...) snow tires. The top was up, of course - it was Christmas time. It felt like going on rails. Until the tires started smelling. Then my friend slowed down.
The fastest I've ever driven myself on the autobahn was about 140mph in a BMW 750i. My 928 has seen 143, but not in Germany. In both cases, I felt like I was on rails. But the lanes do seem to get narrower the faster you go - expecially once you exceed 110mph...
These speeds sound astronomic to us here in the US, because we are used to cars going slower, and many Calfornia Freeways are comparable to roads in third world countries (Sorry, dear patriots, but Caltrans IS totally incompetent - the quality of even some newly paved roads can serve as a justification for the purchase of a gas guzzling SUV).
But keep in mind that the German government recommends 85mph as a reasonable speed on the Autobahn - more than most speed limits States side. The lanes are about 2" wider than here in California, and the quality of the road surfaces is comparable to good race tracks.
I like the guard rails, which I sometimes miss on rural Freeways. Especially, I find it scary when there is no guard rail between the two directions of traffic. What if a car, a truck, or just a lost wheel, makes it into the lanes for the other directon of traffic?
Autobahn drivers use an offset driving technique to see further ahead - it works, because of the wider lanes. One car drives towards the right of the lane, the next to the left, the next to the right again, and so on. You can see much futher ahead that way.
The downside is that you are not allowed to pass on the right. For example, if you have a slow idiot in the fast lane, you can flash your high beams or set your turn signal to the left, but if he doesn't change lanes you are not allowed to pass him on the right (Police can take your license, if they catch you). There are very few exceptions when passing on the right is allowed on an Autobahn.
Unfortunately, people tailgate just like everywhere, and Police has an eye on this. Not only do they have camera systems on bridges, they also have unmarked high performance cars with sophisticaated video systems. These go after heavy offenders, but might take their licenses on the spot. One of their unmarked cars is a red 911. These vehicles are rotated between different Autobahn Police stations, and have a variety of license plates to change back and forth. They are almost impossible to detect.
What am I trying to say? You can have a lot of fun driving there, but it is expected that you know and play by the rules. I believe, the discipline of most drivers, along with the quality of the roads and the high technical standards (Germany has probably the strictest vehicle inspection in the world) makes it safe for everyone.
This might be the reason why there are much less accidents per mile driven in Germany than in the US.
There is a book on that topic, called "American Autobahn", by Mark Rasz (you might put it on your Christmas wish list). He researched all of those differences, and came to the conclusion that the strict speed limits in America actually CAUSE more accidents and deaths...
I have said many times that I feel safer at 120mph on a German Autobahn, than on a Bay Area freeway. But that's not a determining factor when it comes to choosing a place to live. In January, I will have survived 10 years without an Autobahn close-by!
12-07-2002 | 06:57 PM
#20
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From: Gilbert, AZ
I long for the day that the United States will implement a "high Speed" highway similiar to autobahn.
If for one -
1. Drivers need a special endorsement (after training)
2. The fee to travel on applies to Education or whatever Govt deems neccessary
3. Only certified vehicles can travel on
4. The tax to build would come from cities approving such as highway with Fed. aid.
List of Ideas goes on .........
I for one LOVE going mach 4 - It's a peaceful feeling between (wo)man and machine.
I remember the first time I went pass 140 on my GSXR750 - I was tucked into the fairing so tight - it was quiet - The lines on the road became a single line. It was an eerie addicting feeling like no other - I guess thats why I'm hooked.
If the Auotbahn has less accidents/fatalities than we do on our regular freeways in the States -Would anyone agree that our Insurance premium rates will drop if our accident rates drop?.
I also think that GM and Chrysler would back such a plan because of the HP cars they have to offer - Isn't it a shame that a viper or z06 can't go pass 65 leagally?.
To many positive factors to look down on - If we only had a politician who owned a 928?.........
I can see it now - Coast to Coast American Autobahn.
My 2 cents ..............
If for one -
1. Drivers need a special endorsement (after training)
2. The fee to travel on applies to Education or whatever Govt deems neccessary
3. Only certified vehicles can travel on
4. The tax to build would come from cities approving such as highway with Fed. aid.
List of Ideas goes on .........
I for one LOVE going mach 4 - It's a peaceful feeling between (wo)man and machine.
I remember the first time I went pass 140 on my GSXR750 - I was tucked into the fairing so tight - it was quiet - The lines on the road became a single line. It was an eerie addicting feeling like no other - I guess thats why I'm hooked.
If the Auotbahn has less accidents/fatalities than we do on our regular freeways in the States -Would anyone agree that our Insurance premium rates will drop if our accident rates drop?.
I also think that GM and Chrysler would back such a plan because of the HP cars they have to offer - Isn't it a shame that a viper or z06 can't go pass 65 leagally?.
To many positive factors to look down on - If we only had a politician who owned a 928?.........
I can see it now - Coast to Coast American Autobahn.
My 2 cents ..............
12-09-2002 | 07:30 AM
#23
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From: Pflugerville, TX
Nicole, thanks for the link about the GTS. I definitely have to sell my present 928.
On the speed front:
I always slow down to overtake on the autobahn. The 928S4 cruises comfortably at 270kmh (auto) and most road users don't expect a car this fast. I haven't driven my current 928 faster than 275 as traffic has always been too dense to really go for it.
I sometimes exceeded 290kmh (on the speedo) in my first 928 (a 1990) many years ago when traffic was less dense. Very smooth, almost surreal experience. Requires utmost concentration and no traffic.
Cruise control doesn't work at more than 260kmh (lets be realistic, Porsche has to set SOME safety limits). I found this out myself, trying to set 275 one night near Frankfurt(slight uphill incline, lights up). Cruise didn't engage, but when I lifted off the gas, slowed to 260, cruise kicked in!
A new Mercedes AMG can whip my S4 with ease. I tried to keep up with one a couple of months ago on the autobahn. Full gas accelleration in the 928 and the Merc still was a rapidly diminishing spec in front. There's always someone faster than you. Accept that FACT.
If there's anyone in Germany (or elsewhere in Europe) who'd like a Marine blue 928S4 with full Marine Blue and Gray leather, heated seats, sunroof, new belts, waterpump, service, newly retrofitted AC, mine is reluctantly for sale. If you can swap me a pre March 1979 928 or a US spec one, so much the better. Can email pics or put them on this site.
Best V8 regards,
Mark
On the speed front:
I always slow down to overtake on the autobahn. The 928S4 cruises comfortably at 270kmh (auto) and most road users don't expect a car this fast. I haven't driven my current 928 faster than 275 as traffic has always been too dense to really go for it.
I sometimes exceeded 290kmh (on the speedo) in my first 928 (a 1990) many years ago when traffic was less dense. Very smooth, almost surreal experience. Requires utmost concentration and no traffic.
Cruise control doesn't work at more than 260kmh (lets be realistic, Porsche has to set SOME safety limits). I found this out myself, trying to set 275 one night near Frankfurt(slight uphill incline, lights up). Cruise didn't engage, but when I lifted off the gas, slowed to 260, cruise kicked in!
A new Mercedes AMG can whip my S4 with ease. I tried to keep up with one a couple of months ago on the autobahn. Full gas accelleration in the 928 and the Merc still was a rapidly diminishing spec in front. There's always someone faster than you. Accept that FACT.
If there's anyone in Germany (or elsewhere in Europe) who'd like a Marine blue 928S4 with full Marine Blue and Gray leather, heated seats, sunroof, new belts, waterpump, service, newly retrofitted AC, mine is reluctantly for sale. If you can swap me a pre March 1979 928 or a US spec one, so much the better. Can email pics or put them on this site.
Best V8 regards,
Mark
12-09-2002 | 04:08 PM
#24
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From: IN BETWEEN A FROZEN CONCOCTION AND INDECISION
Mark,
Holy Crap! You’re saying you cruse your shark at 167.7699 mph comfortably???
Holy Crap!… Holy Crap!… Holy Crap!
That’s pretty much pegging it at redline isn’t it? <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Guess I gotta move to Germany to experience life a bit. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Tim
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Holy Crap! You’re saying you cruse your shark at 167.7699 mph comfortably???
Holy Crap!…
Holy Crap!… Holy Crap! That’s pretty much pegging it at redline isn’t it? <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Guess I gotta move to Germany to experience life a bit. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Tim
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
12-10-2002 | 12:52 PM
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From: Pflugerville, TX
Yes, Tim, these are VERY capable cars. 290kmh indicated isn't quite redline in the auto but probably is for the manual. Just really gets started at 260. That's no idle boast. Like I say though, there's always someone faster than you, so I still check the rearview mirror.
Take care...Mark
Take care...Mark
12-10-2002 | 01:30 PM
#26
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From: Florida
Found this on another site:
I had a 1995 S600 Coupe converted by JK Motorcars in Baltimore,MD. Ask for Jonathan. Price for mine was about $6000 and these guys are the best.
Try (410) 366-6332. Ask for Jonathan Weisheit. These guys are the best. You can use my name, they converted an S600 Coupe for me. My state sales tax was about $400
I had a 1995 S600 Coupe converted by JK Motorcars in Baltimore,MD. Ask for Jonathan. Price for mine was about $6000 and these guys are the best.
Try (410) 366-6332. Ask for Jonathan Weisheit. These guys are the best. You can use my name, they converted an S600 Coupe for me. My state sales tax was about $400
