Anyone go from S4+ to pre-S4? Anyone own both?
12-03-2007, 03:36 PM
#46
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84, 87
My 84 felt more agile, the suspension was more taut. It generally just felt lighter on its feet. It wasn't as fast as my current S4. But it was close. I would have pulled on my old car above 40 mph or so. Below that it would have been to close for me to pick. My 84 ran really good and only had 57k on it when I bought it.
I like/liked them both. I wish I still had the 84. I'll own another early body style before it's all over with.
If you look at the plate on my old car, the last three digits were "87S" which was just a standard issue plate. Over 4 years later I bought an 87 S4. Fate, maybe so.
I like/liked them both. I wish I still had the 84. I'll own another early body style before it's all over with.
If you look at the plate on my old car, the last three digits were "87S" which was just a standard issue plate. Over 4 years later I bought an 87 S4. Fate, maybe so.
12-13-2007, 09:14 PM
#47
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03-08-2008, 10:16 AM
#48
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Thought I'd put my 928 cents worth here.
After driving the 79 5 spd for the last 12 years all I can say is that it is amazing how tight and smooth the car is. It lacks the straight line that the GTS has obviously, but even at the track last year it was FUN to drive. It's got the same springs and shocks that came with it from Aug of 1978 which are toast for sure. It's got a DR swaybar up front and Louie OTT's sterioids in the rear. S4 brakes all the way around, interior has been gutted and covered with Brown Bread (Dynomatt type sound deadener) interior re-installed. I have to say it is nimble vs the GTS. Like a go cart, but also smoother and quieter for sure on the road. I shortened the shifter to a gear "flick" instead of a throw, and it's got a GTS boot on the lever itself. It's a blast to drive and the car is in great shape with only 65K on the odo.
The GTS. Feels more like you are driving it, vs strapping it on like the 79. Torque is incredible!! Spins the tires all the way through first gear. Brakes are awesome, and it drives like a new car. Just turn the key and go. It feels WAY heavy compared to the 79. Not as quiet, a few more rattles. (79 has NO rattles whatsoever!) More like a boat if you get in one and then the other. You can have ALL the accessories on at a stoplight (stereo, AC, lights, ets) and the lights will not dim. Again, like driving a new car vs a muscle car. They truley are like kids, you love them both, not one more than the other, but different for sure.
With that being said, I've only had the GTS for 2 months. I've had the 79 for 12 years and have constantly worked on that car making it better. In time, the GTS will be more of a beast than it is now. Exhaust, wheels/tires, sound deadening, suspension, short shifter, etc. So I'll give a report as I get there.
Bottom Line: Great Cars!! From 1st model to last!!
After driving the 79 5 spd for the last 12 years all I can say is that it is amazing how tight and smooth the car is. It lacks the straight line that the GTS has obviously, but even at the track last year it was FUN to drive. It's got the same springs and shocks that came with it from Aug of 1978 which are toast for sure. It's got a DR swaybar up front and Louie OTT's sterioids in the rear. S4 brakes all the way around, interior has been gutted and covered with Brown Bread (Dynomatt type sound deadener) interior re-installed. I have to say it is nimble vs the GTS. Like a go cart, but also smoother and quieter for sure on the road. I shortened the shifter to a gear "flick" instead of a throw, and it's got a GTS boot on the lever itself. It's a blast to drive and the car is in great shape with only 65K on the odo.
The GTS. Feels more like you are driving it, vs strapping it on like the 79. Torque is incredible!! Spins the tires all the way through first gear. Brakes are awesome, and it drives like a new car. Just turn the key and go. It feels WAY heavy compared to the 79. Not as quiet, a few more rattles. (79 has NO rattles whatsoever!) More like a boat if you get in one and then the other. You can have ALL the accessories on at a stoplight (stereo, AC, lights, ets) and the lights will not dim. Again, like driving a new car vs a muscle car. They truley are like kids, you love them both, not one more than the other, but different for sure.
With that being said, I've only had the GTS for 2 months. I've had the 79 for 12 years and have constantly worked on that car making it better. In time, the GTS will be more of a beast than it is now. Exhaust, wheels/tires, sound deadening, suspension, short shifter, etc. So I'll give a report as I get there.
Bottom Line: Great Cars!! From 1st model to last!!
03-09-2008, 03:39 AM
#49
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Chuck,
When you gutted the interior and installed the Brown Bread insulation did you go to the metal or just over the old insulation? Did you paint before installing the insulation? How about the fit of the carpets and other interior parts like the lower rear seats with the thinner insulation? Have you seen the Dragon Skin that is sold now to cover the Brown Bread - it is a cermeric paint or spray on product?
Did you do the insides of the doors or just under the panels. I am ready to do this to my 78, but am not sure how much quieter it will be.
Thanks
When you gutted the interior and installed the Brown Bread insulation did you go to the metal or just over the old insulation? Did you paint before installing the insulation? How about the fit of the carpets and other interior parts like the lower rear seats with the thinner insulation? Have you seen the Dragon Skin that is sold now to cover the Brown Bread - it is a cermeric paint or spray on product?
Did you do the insides of the doors or just under the panels. I am ready to do this to my 78, but am not sure how much quieter it will be.
Thanks
03-09-2008, 10:09 AM
#50
I have had one of every type except the GT or GTS, all five speeds. If went from the 86.5 to the S4 back to an 85 with euro gearing. I really loved the 86.5 best.
I think my 85 is a great car as well, and I will never part with the 80. At speeds under 90, it really is plenty fast, and pulls out of the corners well. The later cars need more tire all around to be as responsive.
My opinion ? If I had an S4, I would NOT sell it if it was in good shape. I would do suspension mods, wheels and tires, and an X pipe. A supercharger would balance out the car, and turn it into a Viper eater.
I love my 85, and it is set up like a GT, so it is really fun. I still think an S4 , with power to match the gearing and a suspension to upgrade would be my ultimate 928. Really, I did love the 86.5 the best, and it had the Autoauthority chip, so it was a little beast. But I always regretted selling the S4 before I did all the mods. The spec I described would turn it into the ultimate all rounder.
Good luck with your choices, but remember, there is some truth to the old adage about the devil you know being better than the devil you don't. LOL
I think my 85 is a great car as well, and I will never part with the 80. At speeds under 90, it really is plenty fast, and pulls out of the corners well. The later cars need more tire all around to be as responsive.
My opinion ? If I had an S4, I would NOT sell it if it was in good shape. I would do suspension mods, wheels and tires, and an X pipe. A supercharger would balance out the car, and turn it into a Viper eater.
I love my 85, and it is set up like a GT, so it is really fun. I still think an S4 , with power to match the gearing and a suspension to upgrade would be my ultimate 928. Really, I did love the 86.5 the best, and it had the Autoauthority chip, so it was a little beast. But I always regretted selling the S4 before I did all the mods. The spec I described would turn it into the ultimate all rounder.
Good luck with your choices, but remember, there is some truth to the old adage about the devil you know being better than the devil you don't. LOL
03-09-2008, 10:56 PM
#51
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Dan,
When i gutted the 79, I pulled up pretty much everything. So, I started laying down the Brown Bread in the rear hatch area. I then pulled out the rubber sound deadener at the rear quarters and went over that area with 2 layers of brown bread. Remember, the later cars (around 82 or 83 and up) have big foam pads in this area, but the 77-79 just had a layer of rubber sound deadener) I did not pull up the rubber under the rear seats, although I guess I should have. I also will at some point go back and foam in the b-pillars with Great Stuff expanding foam. I put the brown bread from where the rear pass footwells are, under the front seats and all the way to the firewall. I did not get to the doors yet as I still need to replace the guides (windows rattle) etc. I've been told the doors make the biggest improvement by themselves.
Again, just with this, I'll say that the 79 is Quieter than the GTS. With the doors done and the foam in the A-pillars, it will probably sound like a Cadillac on the inside!!
When i gutted the 79, I pulled up pretty much everything. So, I started laying down the Brown Bread in the rear hatch area. I then pulled out the rubber sound deadener at the rear quarters and went over that area with 2 layers of brown bread. Remember, the later cars (around 82 or 83 and up) have big foam pads in this area, but the 77-79 just had a layer of rubber sound deadener) I did not pull up the rubber under the rear seats, although I guess I should have. I also will at some point go back and foam in the b-pillars with Great Stuff expanding foam. I put the brown bread from where the rear pass footwells are, under the front seats and all the way to the firewall. I did not get to the doors yet as I still need to replace the guides (windows rattle) etc. I've been told the doors make the biggest improvement by themselves.
Again, just with this, I'll say that the 79 is Quieter than the GTS. With the doors done and the foam in the A-pillars, it will probably sound like a Cadillac on the inside!!
03-10-2008, 04:32 AM
#52
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Chuck,
Thanks for the info. I guess you did not pull the insulation on the center hump and under the rear seats.
My concern is more than just sound deading. The old material has a oil smell that I want to get rid of. I was thinking of removing all the insulation, painting the interior with some single stage paint, covering the interior with dyna mat and the some of the dragon skin. Finally pad up the center hump with some high density foam.
Doing the windows is a major improvement. You can run with a window half down and not have it rattle. In case you have not seen this here is my page on the window repair,
http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/te...ndow_frame.htm
Thanks for the info.
Thanks for the info. I guess you did not pull the insulation on the center hump and under the rear seats.
My concern is more than just sound deading. The old material has a oil smell that I want to get rid of. I was thinking of removing all the insulation, painting the interior with some single stage paint, covering the interior with dyna mat and the some of the dragon skin. Finally pad up the center hump with some high density foam.
Doing the windows is a major improvement. You can run with a window half down and not have it rattle. In case you have not seen this here is my page on the window repair,
http://www.kondratyev.com/porsche/te...ndow_frame.htm
Thanks for the info.
03-10-2008, 12:54 PM
#53
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Dan,
Thanks for the link, good stuff!! As for the interior, if you rip out the old stuff, I don't think you really need to paint over it. Just lay in down, I would think that It should cover any "oil smell" you have. Sterling here took it one step further, he took silver tape (not duct tape) and went over the seems so the black tar junk on the brown bread would not be visible. If you lay it down went it's warm (don't lay down the brown bread when it's cold, it will not stick and it's not flexible in cold weather) the tar junk can get on things like your hands, carpet, tools, and anything else it comes in contact with.
Ask me how I know!
Thanks for the link, good stuff!! As for the interior, if you rip out the old stuff, I don't think you really need to paint over it. Just lay in down, I would think that It should cover any "oil smell" you have. Sterling here took it one step further, he took silver tape (not duct tape) and went over the seems so the black tar junk on the brown bread would not be visible. If you lay it down went it's warm (don't lay down the brown bread when it's cold, it will not stick and it's not flexible in cold weather) the tar junk can get on things like your hands, carpet, tools, and anything else it comes in contact with.
Ask me how I know!
03-11-2008, 01:42 PM
#56
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Chuck,
Do you remember how many pounds of material you used?
Do you remember how many pounds of material you used?
Dan,
When i gutted the 79, I pulled up pretty much everything. So, I started laying down the Brown Bread in the rear hatch area. I then pulled out the rubber sound deadener at the rear quarters and went over that area with 2 layers of brown bread. Remember, the later cars (around 82 or 83 and up) have big foam pads in this area, but the 77-79 just had a layer of rubber sound deadener) I did not pull up the rubber under the rear seats, although I guess I should have. I also will at some point go back and foam in the b-pillars with Great Stuff expanding foam. I put the brown bread from where the rear pass footwells are, under the front seats and all the way to the firewall. I did not get to the doors yet as I still need to replace the guides (windows rattle) etc. I've been told the doors make the biggest improvement by themselves.
Again, just with this, I'll say that the 79 is Quieter than the GTS. With the doors done and the foam in the A-pillars, it will probably sound like a Cadillac on the inside!!
When i gutted the 79, I pulled up pretty much everything. So, I started laying down the Brown Bread in the rear hatch area. I then pulled out the rubber sound deadener at the rear quarters and went over that area with 2 layers of brown bread. Remember, the later cars (around 82 or 83 and up) have big foam pads in this area, but the 77-79 just had a layer of rubber sound deadener) I did not pull up the rubber under the rear seats, although I guess I should have. I also will at some point go back and foam in the b-pillars with Great Stuff expanding foam. I put the brown bread from where the rear pass footwells are, under the front seats and all the way to the firewall. I did not get to the doors yet as I still need to replace the guides (windows rattle) etc. I've been told the doors make the biggest improvement by themselves.
Again, just with this, I'll say that the 79 is Quieter than the GTS. With the doors done and the foam in the A-pillars, it will probably sound like a Cadillac on the inside!!
03-11-2008, 04:54 PM
#57
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Having one of each, I prefer the early cars. I too think they feel lighter and more nimble. In my case, my '83S Euro is not giving up any HP to the '88S4. Actually, the 83 had about 10 more HP at the crank than my S4. The S4 is an auto and my wife's daily driver.
I still think the main difference is that the early cars just feel more responsive. I am sure it is only personal preference, but that's my two cents. Good luck and you will not be wrong no matter which you choose.
I still think the main difference is that the early cars just feel more responsive. I am sure it is only personal preference, but that's my two cents. Good luck and you will not be wrong no matter which you choose.
03-11-2008, 08:54 PM
#58
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Dan, No prob.
Will, I don't think it weighed that much, maybe 20 pounds?? On their website, you can calculate how much you might use as it tells you how much the material weighs per square foot. Also looks like Brown Bread has been replaced by B-Quiet ultimate. Pricing was way less than Dynomat. Think I spent about $125 for a roll and a half if I can remember correctly. I've got more than enough to finish the doors and start on the GTS, just from that one purchase.
Joe, I agree the OBs are such a blast to drive and I'm sure your Euro makes my US 79 seem like a slug.
I purchased the Brown Bread from this company off the website. Very easy to deal with and they have some great info here on installs, pricing, pics, performance and specs of the product etc. Take a look.
http://www.b-quiet.com/index.html
Will, I don't think it weighed that much, maybe 20 pounds?? On their website, you can calculate how much you might use as it tells you how much the material weighs per square foot. Also looks like Brown Bread has been replaced by B-Quiet ultimate. Pricing was way less than Dynomat. Think I spent about $125 for a roll and a half if I can remember correctly. I've got more than enough to finish the doors and start on the GTS, just from that one purchase.
Joe, I agree the OBs are such a blast to drive and I'm sure your Euro makes my US 79 seem like a slug.
I purchased the Brown Bread from this company off the website. Very easy to deal with and they have some great info here on installs, pricing, pics, performance and specs of the product etc. Take a look.
http://www.b-quiet.com/index.html
03-12-2008, 04:19 AM
#59
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Search the internet for Dynamat. I found a big difference in pricing from place to place with Eastwood being on the high side. Finally I found a place that offered free shipping at a competitve price. This stuff is heavy so shipping is a factor.
I used Dynamat on a firewall so it will be interesting to see if it holds up. Lots of work.
Has anyone tried the Dragon Skin. It can be sprayed on which should reduce the installation time consideraly. They recommend using something like Dynamat as a base and then coating it with the high temp Dragon Skin for fire walls.
I used Dynamat on a firewall so it will be interesting to see if it holds up. Lots of work.
Has anyone tried the Dragon Skin. It can be sprayed on which should reduce the installation time consideraly. They recommend using something like Dynamat as a base and then coating it with the high temp Dragon Skin for fire walls.