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runs good on techron 88s4

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Old 03-11-2002, 09:29 PM
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onthedge928s4
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Question runs good on techron 88s4

OK folks,
I have a 88 s4 that has a thirst for the fuel additive techron. why, you ask . because when i run it in the tank the car has better response and pickup and runs alittle smoother.then when it runs out and i fill another tank or two later she`s back to her old lazy self.can my car be running lean , bad injector problem/or does this additive have a boost or octane increases to fool me into thinking its good...i would like some input .. let hear it also pass this on to any ears that may have technical info on this product or situation.. thanks or for 12.99 plus a full tank she`ll run good <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
Old 03-11-2002, 10:00 PM
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Ron G.
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I've also noticed the same effect in every vehicle I've run Techron in (including motorcycles). Thought it was my imagination but maybe not. I can't explain it.
Old 03-12-2002, 03:17 AM
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SL8GT
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After trying numerous name brands and off-brands, my car seems to be happiest when it's sipping Chevron Supreme with Techron.

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Old 03-12-2002, 10:36 AM
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Moss928
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I have been using Techron for years. I had a 1977 Mercedes 300D (diesel) back in 87. The valves began to tap on me. I took it to the dealership and they said that I needed new injectors at a cost of $600.00.

A week later I stopped at a Chevron for fuel. They had bottles of Techron on top of the pump (for sale). Back then it was around 9-10 bucks a clip. I emptied a bottle into the tank and filled it with diesel.

The car ran like a champ from then on. I have been using it ever since. However, I won't use it more than once per oil change.
Old 03-12-2002, 10:54 AM
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Eric R
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I also searched for the solution to the loss of power.

My favorite gas is AMOCO Gold, 93 octane. I started my 'search' by adding Techron. After a while, it became ineffective, probably loosening more of the accumulated crud over time. Then I tried other products until I got to Greased Lightning fuel system cleaner. It dissolved any remaining goop after two bottles in two successive tanks. Now I just run plain AMOCO 93.

I plan to use it occasionally (every six months) to keep the car running right.

E
Old 03-12-2002, 01:50 PM
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ldrhawke
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THIS IS A REPOST FROM SEVERAL WEEKS AGO...... it applies to this topic

Guys,

My 88' 928 s4 electronic injectors have been giving me fits for years. It was ten
time worse after allowing the car to sit in storage, but was even a problem
even before that. I have been giving the problem a lot of thought as to
what actually causes it and what can fix it.

I am posting my thoughts because I feel poor running 928's are all too often
being diagnosed as something else ; i.e.: idle stabilizer worn out, pressure
regulators bad, O2 pick up needs to be replaced, vacuum leak, bad plug
wires, bad electrical connections, etc, etc.

I know because I also consider
all of these as potential culprits since they show many of the same signs.
I continuously see late model 928 owners on the list complaining about idle,
surging, and hard starting problems.

Since my solution is such an easy fix, it would always be the first thing I would do before looking elsewhere and starting to replace expensive parts on a 928. Not that it might still have worn or bad parts and be needed, but in
my case they were not.

I own both a 80' 928 and the 88' 928S4. The 80' with its mechanical injectors has not given me the first problem. I have treated or mistreated both the cars the same. The 88' 928 S4 with the electric Bosch injectors
has become a pain in the ***. The injector system are different.

The 80' mechanical injectors have a simple hole orifice and the electric have the small center shaft with the tip in the center of the hole that forms more of a donut opening when open.

The mechanical injector may more easily pass any trash and particles that accumulate in the fuel system over time from poor
quality gasoline and also the mechanical injector system may direct a stronger pulse to individual injectors than the pressure in the injector header does on the 88'electric. The 88' electric has been more of a problem for
me. .........comments from the experts on this premise.

In any case, I have found the electric injectors on the 88' to be much more susceptible to plugging.....based on my real world experience.

I quickly know when an injector became partially plugged because the car also becomes hard to start. After being turned off it often floods when an injector hangs up with foreign material. When started after cranking hard, black smoke belches from the exhaust.

I replaced all the injectors on my 88' with new ones, figuring that would solve my problem. Within a week the problems were occurring all over again. Actually the problems became a little worse. I figure adding a single can of injector cleaner with a fill ups was now causing the fuel system coated junk
to slowly break off and allow a lot more particles into the fuel as it flowed to the injectors. <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />

A little history, within the first year of owning the new 88', I was bringing the car back to the dealer because of poor idling and surging. Brumo's of Jacksonville started replacing parts and even installed new injectors under warranty. It became a regular occurrence every 5,000 miles and they started to simply plug in a fuel system cleaner directly into the injector system to clean out the injectors. The car became a pain the *** for me and the dealer. The chief mechanic, Sigmon, always said it was caused by the poor quality of gas sold in the US and I wasn't the only Porsche owner with the problem. I used to think it was an excuse for not being able to fix the problem.

From another lister, I now understand US fuel has 10% less aromatics than European fuel, so allow it to meet stricter EPA emission criteria. But, this also aggravates the problem of additives separating in the fuel and
waxing or plating out inside the fuel system. Based on this, adding a can of good fuel system cleaner into a tank of gasoline isn't doing much more than bring the fuel up to European standards for aromatic content. All the rubber and plastic in contact with the fuel has been designed to stand up to the stonger aromatic concentration .

With my back ground as an engineer and having specialized in hydraulics directly out of school, I started going to bed at night trying to better under stand how the total fuel system was put together and how it worked
differently on the electronic injector system. I'm sometimes a little slow, but thanks to the input of guys on this list in several areas I have a basic understanding now. I was getting ready to pull the gas tank and fuel lines, etc, etc ..........which in most cases may be avoidable.

Although pulling the fuel tank for cleaning and replacing all the lines is a fix, the problem will probably still occur again in time, even after doing these things. Some Porsche owners smartly add regular addition of fuel system cleaning additives, and most all the experts on the list recommend it, which is smart. I recommend the same thing. But I found the normal method of addition a single can to the fuel may not be enough once a system has a lot of bad fuel crap coated out in it. Which is what I discovered after months of trying to use the normal dosage of a can at a time.

Because of the way the fuel delivery system of the 928 is designed, almost 90% of the fuel is recirculated back to the gas tank through the pressure regulators and in turn goes back through the fuel filter again. The system
will always clean up the fuel if given enough time. Even crap in the fuel tank will be cleaned up. Taking the tank off to clean is normally not be necessary, unless someone physically dumped sand into it, because any particles in it are filtered before they leave. Frequent regular replacement of the fuel filter is a must in the 928. It is also mandatory after going through the cleaning procedure I describe. Slower fuel delivery caused by a dirty filter will only aggravate the situation by allowing for
lower velocity in the system and a more rapid plating out of gasoline additives.

What the fuel filter on the gas tank does not do is filter the lines in front of it. If any crap has plated out, from poor quality or old gasoline,
in these lines and in the injector headers, it can get into an injector before passing through the filter. Porsche would have been smart to have installed a secondary filter or screen just before the injectors and a lot
of these problems may not have occurred. It would have been able to catch the crap just before going into the injector orifice. But, they didn't.

My 928 S4 has now been running great for a weeks.....like a new car. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> It pulls harder and smoother than i ever remember. No more rough idle, hard starting, no more violent
surges off idle or engine dieing. I didn't have to replace the flapper valve, O2 sensor, fuel pressure regulators, plug wires, spark plugs, etc, etc.... Although I know my plug wires are due.

I basically did what Sigmon from Brumos was doing when I brought it into correct the problem. A heavy dose of good injector cleaner. The difference is that I do it so it also cleans all the fuel lines, tank, and injector headers at the same time.

I let the gas tank get down to less than 1/2 full and added three (3) cans of Berryman injector cleaner($3.00/can) into the gas tank. (Get a fuel additive that is sold in a metal cans...it is often a higher quality solvent. All additives are not the same and some don't work at all.)

I then let the car sit and idle for 30 minutes. After wards I drove off and topped the tank off with Amoco premium fuel. Problem solve........ The cars now kicks over the first click of the key and it has never idled so smoothly.

The injectors may replug, until all the crap is finally out of the system. If it happens again and doesn't clear out with normal driving I would simply repeat the fuel system concentrated cleaning procedure.

I know most of you 928 owners don't have the problem because you drive your cars more and use cleaner regularly, but to many of us that find ourselves with 928's that idle rough, surge off idle, and/or are hard to start ( leaving a cloud of black smoke when they do). A stong concentrated of fuel system cleaner is the first thing I would always try first. It is a lot cheaper and faster. If it works you've saved a bundle. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Obviously it won't work in all cases, but I'll
bet that it does in more than it doesn't.

Enjoying driving my Porsche again it is running like a goosed cat again.......hawke <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
Old 03-12-2002, 09:19 PM
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onthedge928s4
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WOQOOW what a response,
I guess it`s nice or not nice to know that I`m not the only one who has a tempermental beast.
I`ll just feed it the good stuff and a little additive ...I thank you all for the input and
i really liked the past post.that was an ear full ,but a very good one.thanks I`m off to feed the beast.............. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
Old 03-12-2002, 09:27 PM
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Greg86andahalf
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Just added it tonight. $3 rebate on the 20 oz. bottle. Good deal. Hopefully, the car will idle better when cold.
Old 03-14-2002, 07:59 PM
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onthedge928s4
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ok people,
I had a shop working on my car for a month and they didn`t know what was wrong, they tried wires ,caps , rotors, timing,plugs,air filter fuel filter ect. still ran like ****.I started to drive it regulary with techron in the tank the valve cleaner and the fuel injector one there are two .the valve cleaner one made a heck of a difference .I gonna run it again and try that berry stuff you guys suggested.I `ll let you know but it`s running 10 times better than it has lately.....maybe i`ll buy it a six pack.i would have to say these are a problem fuel delivery being a problem.My 85 never had the problem ,but then again I used it every day and drove the livin **** out of it...my advise use the additive or cleaner or try a different year 928... thanks for all of your help. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
Old 03-14-2002, 08:07 PM
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Andrew B.
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My car seems to run smoother on a tankful with Redline fuel system cleaner. It's weird red additive with elements in the bottom (you have to shake the bottle). The guy at the local peformance place says its good stuff so I tried it.

Wonder what's in there...BTW, techron is recommended by a lot of Porsche owners I know around here...
Old 03-15-2002, 02:24 AM
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Normy
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Angry

Back from Key West....

For the past month I have been trying to find a solution to my '85 S2's rough running problem. This problem, which has existed since I bought the car three years ago has steadily gotten worse. The trend bothers me more than the actual problem.

I've spent many hours poring over fuel system diagrams and in front of this laptop chatting with/comparing notes with many people from around the world and have picked up some important tips. However, my silly little indulgence in Bohemian lifestyle in South Florida this past week gave me a theory.

First of all, some background: My car has to sit for weeks at a time in my garage because I am unmarried and work for an airline. When I leave for a trip the car seems to run great, especially on cold nights [uhmm...where's that traction control fuse...it must be burned out!]. But when I return a week later [drop my kitbag by the door and run to the garage...] I find that my "baby" treats me the way a real baby treats a diaper. That is, it seems to run on 6-7 cylinders and is way down on power for about the first 40 or so miles of driving. Then the problem goes away, only to surface when I hammer on it on hot afternoons....missing and kicking. I suspected it was getting lean in one or two cylinders, probably because of blocked injectors.

I have the CO set fairly rich...it smokes quite a bit when I accelerate hard and if I can hear little pops and bangs when I am coasting down from high rpm with the clutch still engaged.

OK...so I get back from Belgium and I immediately attack the poor thing with the discussed Berryman Injector cleaner...which indeed did help reduce the distance needed to eliminate the rough running, but it really never completely eliminated it. OK...back to the store, and this tankfull I chose to try Greased Lightning, which actually seemed to make the beast run rougher. I tried running with nothing at all, which seemed the same. In fact, nothing seems to be able to get rid of the hi-throttle missing. It just seems to appear/reappear at odd times, cold seems to make it disappear.

I was at a loss, and was considering taking the plunge and allowing a good German car technician here in town to take a stab at diagnosing it. But then I noticed something...

Having the week off, I decided to take the Shark camping. In search of nature and ocean and sun and beer, I set sail for Sebastian Inlet State Park, a beautiful place located on the Atlantic Ocean and about 90 minutes away from my house. Feeling like saving money, I took my tent and camped out- the stars overhead and the waves crashing nearby. The car ran fine.

[salt water]

The next day I packed the car and drove 6 hours south, to Bahia Honda State Park, which was rated as the best beach in the US in 1998 and is regularly listed as one of the best in the world. It really is a paradise, covered with palm trees and gentle breezes. I set my tent up among the mangroves and swam in the calm, clear waters. The car did not run fine.

[salt water,]

Day three finds the unusual site of a Porsche 928 parked in front of the Youth Hostel in Key West. I managed to find a kewl spot under a poinciana tree and beer in hand, I spent the evening mingling with the college kids [I got carded too...] till the wee hours, staggering back to the hostel filled with more kids still partying. This morning, after several cups of coffee I drove the 400 miles back to Orlando. The car did not run good. In fact it annoyed the living hell out of me all the way. It also reminded me that I have to recharge the a/c.

[and MORE salt water!]

I think the common thread here is that in Orlando, the car ran well. As soon as I brought it near that salt air, it became a bastard. I suspect, and intend to test my theory by cleaning, that some of the electrical connectors, most likely to the injectors are corroded. Has anyone ever tried cleaning these? Anyone have any good methods for cleaning electrical connectors, or for preventing corrosion after they are cleaned?

AND...is there any corelation between people who live in salt environments and rough running Porsche 928's?

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Normy~
Old 03-15-2002, 02:47 AM
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Normy
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PS...as to Techron- great stuff. I run Chevron in all my cars and my bike and I've noticed that they all run best.

-Go out to a dragstrip and ask the people out there what they are running and you'll find that more often than not they are running Chevron.

N~
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