Car Insurance
11-26-2002, 03:43 AM
#31
Instructor
I would like to take this opportunity to say that I am sorry if I conveyed that I was directing my message at Nicole or was making a blanket agreement with speed limits as they are. I was venting as I mentioned. After which I explained why. My post was less about speed limits than about all the "pig bashing" I had been listening to. I thought I was pretty clear about that. I also mentioned and will say again that rennlist was not my main source of frustration. More often than not, I bite my tongue when I hear someone ranting about how some "sorry *** pig" or other derogatory generalization about an officer who did this or did that "to them" without any acknowledgement that it was perhaps possible that they (the person complaining) are in fact not perfect and may very well have done something illegal. It is the politicians who make this or that illegal, not the cops. Why is it I seldom hear anyone bemoaning politicians for the laws they pass? It is much easier to badmouth the person whom they came in contact with (i.e. the person who just stopped them.) I just wantedt o point out that while firemen are universally apprecaited and beloved, keep in mind they really don't have anyone to **** off. Someone said on another thread that it is far easier to find fault than to find thanks in someone else. I have to agree.
I cannot and will not speak for law enforcement as I am not qaulified to do so. Nor will I speak for every 928 owner out there for much of the same reason. Once again, I was venting. I am in agreement with you in regards to vehicle safety and driver ability not being equal. I really don't want to go any further with this as to prevent hijackig this thread. To Sam928, I am sorry.
I respect the opinions and points of view of those responding to my post. Since I was venting when I wrote it, it is probably safe to say that I was ranting and raving too. Doh! Thanks for the great input! Ron_H, you wrote a great post and I happen to agree with some of it. I am confident that you missunderstood me as you stated "You are stating that if someone is handicapped, we should all strive to achieve the level of performance of that person and no higher." This couldn't be farther that what I belive about either driving or life in general. I strongly believe in personal responsibility and individual merits, but we do NOT live in a society which is comprised of persons whom are willing to accept responsibility for their actions. This is as obvious to me as night and day. If you disagree with me on this most simple issue, perhaps you and I will not agree on anything else I have written. If this is the case, I propose we agree to disagree. It is possible that you simply do not like cops. That is perfectly fine also. I wanted to expose my point of view which is usually pro cops. I see anti-cop diatribes all the time. Very very seldom do I hear anyone publicly support the police. It is almost taboo or something. Maybe I am a rebel for supporting them. So be it. Anyway, thanks for a great read as well as keeping it civil.
BTW, I will second NOSUBSTITUTE when he posted Geico will drop you if you have a claim. It happened to me and wasn't even a accident or a total. It was vandalism (to an old mercedes I used to have). Geico sucks. In just fifteen minutes, we can screw you 15% or more. Call now.
I cannot and will not speak for law enforcement as I am not qaulified to do so. Nor will I speak for every 928 owner out there for much of the same reason. Once again, I was venting. I am in agreement with you in regards to vehicle safety and driver ability not being equal. I really don't want to go any further with this as to prevent hijackig this thread. To Sam928, I am sorry.
I respect the opinions and points of view of those responding to my post. Since I was venting when I wrote it, it is probably safe to say that I was ranting and raving too. Doh! Thanks for the great input! Ron_H, you wrote a great post and I happen to agree with some of it. I am confident that you missunderstood me as you stated "You are stating that if someone is handicapped, we should all strive to achieve the level of performance of that person and no higher." This couldn't be farther that what I belive about either driving or life in general. I strongly believe in personal responsibility and individual merits, but we do NOT live in a society which is comprised of persons whom are willing to accept responsibility for their actions. This is as obvious to me as night and day. If you disagree with me on this most simple issue, perhaps you and I will not agree on anything else I have written. If this is the case, I propose we agree to disagree. It is possible that you simply do not like cops. That is perfectly fine also. I wanted to expose my point of view which is usually pro cops. I see anti-cop diatribes all the time. Very very seldom do I hear anyone publicly support the police. It is almost taboo or something. Maybe I am a rebel for supporting them. So be it. Anyway, thanks for a great read as well as keeping it civil.
BTW, I will second NOSUBSTITUTE when he posted Geico will drop you if you have a claim. It happened to me and wasn't even a accident or a total. It was vandalism (to an old mercedes I used to have). Geico sucks. In just fifteen minutes, we can screw you 15% or more. Call now.
11-26-2002, 02:21 PM
#32
Drifting
I will try to keep my views short and sweet. Everyone here has read my views on the Insurance industry/revenue machine so I will skip that one.
As far as the police go, I think they have a very tough job that they do for minimal compensation. I don't think that they should hand out tickets for minimal infractions with such glee (experienced this many times!) I think that they should be free to 'Protect and Serve!'. Giving me a speeding ticket for being the only one on a wide open freeway, endangering no one else in any way is not fair in my book. I also don't believe that they have the right to pull me over for a seatbelt violation. It's not that I don't wear one, I just don't think that's in their realm of protecting the public. Protect me from me?
I used to work with them doing their communications and think that they have one of the most exciting, dangerous, and under-appreciated jobs. I also feel that they should recieve more pay and not have to worry about increasing their revenue by handing out citations simply to appease the gov't accountants. The beef here is not with the man on the highway, he's only doing what he is told by the man upstairs. (there are exceptions, some officers enjoy the power rush of a high ticket tally and do brag about it.)
Let them get back to their intended job of protecting the public and take revenue collection out of their hands. They should have the power to stop reckless drivers and racing as well as drunk drivers, but I have been pulled over many times for crossing the center line (when I know I didn't) just because I left a bar. I usually had not even had a single drink (I play a lot of pool). They should worry about the people actually causing the problems, not those that might. It's like getting pulled over in a Porsche because it can speed. Just because I frequent bars doesn't mean that I am drinking, in fact it isn't good for my pool game. Just leave a bar at 2am in a Porsche and see how long it takes an officer watching the parking lot to pull you over. Probable cause: in a bar=drinking, driving a Porsche=speeding.
The officer on the street is pressured to stop all crime, even before it happens. I think that is an invasion of my privacy. I think that a speed trap on an open section of highway is entrapment. If they are pulling everyone over, who are they protecting?
If it's not a revenue generating machine, why did the cost of a 100mph in a 65mph zone ticket in Utah go from $120 to $440 last year without being put up to any kind of vote from the public? The judge couldn't even answer that one. (deserted highway at 3 am, endangering only me and yes, I was wearing my seatbelt.)
It would take a lot of time and energy to change things as it would have to be done at a very high level. In the meantime, treat these guys with the respect that they give you. If you are caught speeding, don't try to deny it, it doesn't work. Accept it like a man (or woman) and if you feel that you weren't (that) guilty, take it to court. The side of the road is not the place to argue. You may be keeping them from doing their real job.
Flame away.........
Dave
As far as the police go, I think they have a very tough job that they do for minimal compensation. I don't think that they should hand out tickets for minimal infractions with such glee (experienced this many times!) I think that they should be free to 'Protect and Serve!'. Giving me a speeding ticket for being the only one on a wide open freeway, endangering no one else in any way is not fair in my book. I also don't believe that they have the right to pull me over for a seatbelt violation. It's not that I don't wear one, I just don't think that's in their realm of protecting the public. Protect me from me?
I used to work with them doing their communications and think that they have one of the most exciting, dangerous, and under-appreciated jobs. I also feel that they should recieve more pay and not have to worry about increasing their revenue by handing out citations simply to appease the gov't accountants. The beef here is not with the man on the highway, he's only doing what he is told by the man upstairs. (there are exceptions, some officers enjoy the power rush of a high ticket tally and do brag about it.)
Let them get back to their intended job of protecting the public and take revenue collection out of their hands. They should have the power to stop reckless drivers and racing as well as drunk drivers, but I have been pulled over many times for crossing the center line (when I know I didn't) just because I left a bar. I usually had not even had a single drink (I play a lot of pool). They should worry about the people actually causing the problems, not those that might. It's like getting pulled over in a Porsche because it can speed. Just because I frequent bars doesn't mean that I am drinking, in fact it isn't good for my pool game. Just leave a bar at 2am in a Porsche and see how long it takes an officer watching the parking lot to pull you over. Probable cause: in a bar=drinking, driving a Porsche=speeding.
The officer on the street is pressured to stop all crime, even before it happens. I think that is an invasion of my privacy. I think that a speed trap on an open section of highway is entrapment. If they are pulling everyone over, who are they protecting?
If it's not a revenue generating machine, why did the cost of a 100mph in a 65mph zone ticket in Utah go from $120 to $440 last year without being put up to any kind of vote from the public? The judge couldn't even answer that one. (deserted highway at 3 am, endangering only me and yes, I was wearing my seatbelt.)
It would take a lot of time and energy to change things as it would have to be done at a very high level. In the meantime, treat these guys with the respect that they give you. If you are caught speeding, don't try to deny it, it doesn't work. Accept it like a man (or woman) and if you feel that you weren't (that) guilty, take it to court. The side of the road is not the place to argue. You may be keeping them from doing their real job.
Flame away.........
Dave
11-26-2002, 03:35 PM
#33
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So many opinions, so little time to respond. FWIW, I'll just hit the highlights (for me, anyhow):
Ed - the paradigm of virtue, the man who would turn in his mother for copying a CD, the most law abiding man I know - you own a radar detector in Virginia? The law must have changed since I last lived there, because possessing a detector in Virginia was illegal back then.
Ron - do you seriously suggest that no speed limits would somehow be an improvement over our current system under which between 40,000 and 50,000 people die each year in traffic accidents. In a world where even just a majority of individuals could be counted upon to show good judgement that would be great - this ain't that world. Freedom good, anarchy bad.
bcdavis - traffic enforcement in LA is a joke, you have to be really unlucky to get pulled over here, it's way down the list of priorities for LAPD and LASO. Try living on the East Coast for a while with a trooper dedicated to enforcement every twenty miles or so. This may be sacrilege on this list, but I'd like to see more enforcement. (And cops don't do parking tickets in LA - we can try sending the meter maids into South Central, but I suspect the homicide rate would climb.
Generally - I agree with the opinion that allowing departments to generate revenue with tickets is bad public policy and leads to skewed priorities and misapplication of traffic laws. The solution does not lie with tirades against law enforcement, however, it lies with the elected officials who pass the laws and oversee enforcement. (The same applies for your complaints about drug laws, noise ordinances, insert your cause here.)
My view of the world. Again just FWIW.
Ed - the paradigm of virtue, the man who would turn in his mother for copying a CD, the most law abiding man I know - you own a radar detector in Virginia? The law must have changed since I last lived there, because possessing a detector in Virginia was illegal back then.
Ron - do you seriously suggest that no speed limits would somehow be an improvement over our current system under which between 40,000 and 50,000 people die each year in traffic accidents. In a world where even just a majority of individuals could be counted upon to show good judgement that would be great - this ain't that world. Freedom good, anarchy bad.
bcdavis - traffic enforcement in LA is a joke, you have to be really unlucky to get pulled over here, it's way down the list of priorities for LAPD and LASO. Try living on the East Coast for a while with a trooper dedicated to enforcement every twenty miles or so. This may be sacrilege on this list, but I'd like to see more enforcement. (And cops don't do parking tickets in LA - we can try sending the meter maids into South Central, but I suspect the homicide rate would climb.
Generally - I agree with the opinion that allowing departments to generate revenue with tickets is bad public policy and leads to skewed priorities and misapplication of traffic laws. The solution does not lie with tirades against law enforcement, however, it lies with the elected officials who pass the laws and oversee enforcement. (The same applies for your complaints about drug laws, noise ordinances, insert your cause here.)
My view of the world. Again just FWIW.
11-26-2002, 04:24 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
[quote]Originally posted by TJQuill:
<strong>So many opinions, so little time to respond. FWIW, I'll just hit the highlights (for me, anyhow):
Ed - the paradigm of virtue, the man who would turn in his mother for copying a CD, the most law abiding man I know - you own a radar detector in Virginia? The law must have changed since I last lived there, because possessing a detector in Virginia was illegal back then.
My view of the world. Again just FWIW.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The law was changed over a decade ago. It's legal to own a radar detector in VA, but it's still illegal to use it on public roads in VA. While in VA, I don't use it. As soon as I'm out of the State, it gets connected. YMMV.
<strong>So many opinions, so little time to respond. FWIW, I'll just hit the highlights (for me, anyhow):
Ed - the paradigm of virtue, the man who would turn in his mother for copying a CD, the most law abiding man I know - you own a radar detector in Virginia? The law must have changed since I last lived there, because possessing a detector in Virginia was illegal back then.
My view of the world. Again just FWIW.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The law was changed over a decade ago. It's legal to own a radar detector in VA, but it's still illegal to use it on public roads in VA. While in VA, I don't use it. As soon as I'm out of the State, it gets connected. YMMV.
11-26-2002, 04:51 PM
#35
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And that's his story and he's sticking to it!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Happy turkey day!
Tim Delarm
P.S...almost forgot...YMMV!
<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Happy turkey day!
Tim Delarm
P.S...almost forgot...YMMV!
<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />
11-26-2002, 07:42 PM
#37
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That would be another great off topic discussion:
Police 'Here to protect and serve', The conflict of interest. Busy raising revenue (traffic violations), and too busy to do more investigations into more crimes that should be investigated. They definitely at times protect us, and serve us.
Three years ago my 'New' 4 month old F-150 was stolen. After the incident I had the names of the people who had witnessed the person steal the truck, I expressed to the police I would prosecute! Police said its not a high enough priority (grand theft auto) for them to prosecute, due to lack of manpower.
John D
Police 'Here to protect and serve', The conflict of interest. Busy raising revenue (traffic violations), and too busy to do more investigations into more crimes that should be investigated. They definitely at times protect us, and serve us.
Three years ago my 'New' 4 month old F-150 was stolen. After the incident I had the names of the people who had witnessed the person steal the truck, I expressed to the police I would prosecute! Police said its not a high enough priority (grand theft auto) for them to prosecute, due to lack of manpower.
John D
11-26-2002, 09:09 PM
#38
Drifting
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Because their "manpower" was out on the streets, giving out tickets...
And yes, I respect the job cops are "supposed" to do. I also understand that they are *told* to enforce the speeding laws. So they do. It's not the cop's fault.
But I have a problem with the priorities.
And as far as tickets in LA, I would agree that it is not nearly as bad as other states. I've been back east, and seen all the troopers everywhere. It sucks. Here you can blend with the pack, and avoid detection. The herd theory.
My point was that the govt. chooses to train more and more parking enforcement officers, and provide them with vehicles. Not to mention cops who are only assigned to "traffic detail". So why not train them how to use a gun, train them to investigate thefts, and assaults, and put them on the streets doing "real" police work? There is a huge fleet of parking enforcement vehicles. Not to mention all their salaries. All that money could be used for training more "real" police, or giving them a raise. But the govt would rather collect more revenue, than to make the streets safer...
The police did not even want to come look at my car when it was broken into. They refused to come out. I had to go to the station to file a report. No interest in collecting fingerprints, or asking any questions. They just assume that insurance will cover it, so they do nothing.
And yes, I respect the job cops are "supposed" to do. I also understand that they are *told* to enforce the speeding laws. So they do. It's not the cop's fault.
But I have a problem with the priorities.
And as far as tickets in LA, I would agree that it is not nearly as bad as other states. I've been back east, and seen all the troopers everywhere. It sucks. Here you can blend with the pack, and avoid detection. The herd theory.
My point was that the govt. chooses to train more and more parking enforcement officers, and provide them with vehicles. Not to mention cops who are only assigned to "traffic detail". So why not train them how to use a gun, train them to investigate thefts, and assaults, and put them on the streets doing "real" police work? There is a huge fleet of parking enforcement vehicles. Not to mention all their salaries. All that money could be used for training more "real" police, or giving them a raise. But the govt would rather collect more revenue, than to make the streets safer...
The police did not even want to come look at my car when it was broken into. They refused to come out. I had to go to the station to file a report. No interest in collecting fingerprints, or asking any questions. They just assume that insurance will cover it, so they do nothing.
11-26-2002, 11:25 PM
#39
Well, I guess I'll burn in hell for my untruths.
Frankly, I figured on the worst years ago.
Though I walked out of the house, and drove off of the grounds after calling my folks "f'in bozos for their part in re-electing Nixon, my father, an attorney on the fast track to hell, figured he would eventually re-instate me to the distribution of the estate. Therefore, he became concerned when I married a short Texan with a blue collar father.
Laid out a plan to keep properties EX-WIFE PROOF.
Cynic that I am ...I agreed with him.
Still together -25 years- 'WE' have extended this travesty of contract law into hidden debt/loans and trusts for the kids.
Screw the umbrella.
Jessa,
$1300.00 a year for 3 vehicles, liability and uninsured motorist. Drive the wheels off.
We have no tickets in the last 10 years,
attend mandatory defensive driving courses every two years, have great credit blah, blah, blah...
I'm 52, Sharon is 46, er, 22
2 non-driving kids, house is paid off......
Where in the hell is the big insurance break?
I've never seen it!
The Insurance guy's are giving you the straight scoop on the umbrella, but as a number of us have said in the past: "What's the blue book value of your car? Now, what percentage of that blue book value do you suppose your insurer is using as the cut-off for totalling your sHARk? "
This is a judgement call, your call! Gather all the info you can before making the decision.
I buried the assets, and went LIABILITY.
So, really, how much you asking for Pattycakes sibling?
John S. & Pattycakes <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Frankly, I figured on the worst years ago.
Though I walked out of the house, and drove off of the grounds after calling my folks "f'in bozos for their part in re-electing Nixon, my father, an attorney on the fast track to hell, figured he would eventually re-instate me to the distribution of the estate. Therefore, he became concerned when I married a short Texan with a blue collar father.
Laid out a plan to keep properties EX-WIFE PROOF.
Cynic that I am ...I agreed with him.
Still together -25 years- 'WE' have extended this travesty of contract law into hidden debt/loans and trusts for the kids.
Screw the umbrella.
Jessa,
$1300.00 a year for 3 vehicles, liability and uninsured motorist. Drive the wheels off.
We have no tickets in the last 10 years,
attend mandatory defensive driving courses every two years, have great credit blah, blah, blah...
I'm 52, Sharon is 46, er, 22
2 non-driving kids, house is paid off......Where in the hell is the big insurance break?
I've never seen it!
The Insurance guy's are giving you the straight scoop on the umbrella, but as a number of us have said in the past: "What's the blue book value of your car? Now, what percentage of that blue book value do you suppose your insurer is using as the cut-off for totalling your sHARk? "
This is a judgement call, your call! Gather all the info you can before making the decision.
I buried the assets, and went LIABILITY.
So, really, how much you asking for Pattycakes sibling?
John S. & Pattycakes <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
11-27-2002, 12:25 AM
#40
Three Wheelin'
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It truly does come down to attitude when getting pulled over. I've been yanked in Florida, South Carolina, Maryland, New Jersey, Texas, Georgia, Arizona, Virginia and California. Multiple times for most of those states as a matter of fact. The majority of those stops were 80-90mph infractions on the interstate and the most severe were 100mph+ deals. In just about every case the officer reduced the speed and in the 100mph + cases where I should've been cuffed, I was let go on one and thanked for pulling over in the other. Even in the feared southern states. Just don't lie. With few exceptions should your answers be anything other than "yes sir", "no sir" or "yes Trooper, no trooper".(they like that)
Oddly enough my insurance never skyrocketed while I was under coverage and getting points here and there. Do they only check when they're about to sign you up?
Oddly enough my insurance never skyrocketed while I was under coverage and getting points here and there. Do they only check when they're about to sign you up?
11-27-2002, 02:11 AM
#41
Drifting
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I think some companies only check when you sign up.
At least mine has never gone up, despite points.
But others do check... When I was a teen, and I got tickets, they freaked, and tried to cancel me...
I agree 100% about being polite.
The "yes sir, no sir" works wonders.
Be honest, and apologetic, and they will often let you off, or reduce the fine. I keep my front plate off for just that reason. It gaves them something to reduce it to. Many times, when I get pulled over, they give me a "fix-it" ticket for the plate instead of a speeding ticket...
At least mine has never gone up, despite points.
But others do check... When I was a teen, and I got tickets, they freaked, and tried to cancel me...
I agree 100% about being polite.
The "yes sir, no sir" works wonders.
Be honest, and apologetic, and they will often let you off, or reduce the fine. I keep my front plate off for just that reason. It gaves them something to reduce it to. Many times, when I get pulled over, they give me a "fix-it" ticket for the plate instead of a speeding ticket...
11-27-2002, 12:05 PM
#42
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Funny this post has been going on lately, being that I was pulled over because I did not COMPLETELY de-ice my windshield this morning near Flint. I kid you not. When the officer came to the window and explained it, all I could think of to say was "Sir, this might be the biggest waste of my time I have ever heard of. See you in court."
Would you believe that he wrote me up a ticket?
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Oh well!
Shawn
Would you believe that he wrote me up a ticket?
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
Oh well!
Shawn
11-27-2002, 12:38 PM
#44
Drifting
[quote]GEICO wants $630 per year which seems excessive.<hr></blockquote>
Ehhhh not really. I have Nationwide and they charge me about 600 a year full coverage. Which is a little less than my wife and I each pay for our daily drivers. We have our homeowners insurance thru them also, but that gets paid by the mortgage company thru the escrow acct, but I still get the all the discounts from Nationwide for having multiple home & auto policys.
Ehhhh not really. I have Nationwide and they charge me about 600 a year full coverage. Which is a little less than my wife and I each pay for our daily drivers. We have our homeowners insurance thru them also, but that gets paid by the mortgage company thru the escrow acct, but I still get the all the discounts from Nationwide for having multiple home & auto policys.
11-27-2002, 05:21 PM
#45
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FYI, When you recieve tickets in some states, they may be states that do not collectively share info together. Saying this, it has been many of moons for me not to enter New York.
Young and dumb, not one ticket but two in the same day by the same officer. Needlessly, I learned my lesson. Even if the points never hit my license in Mi.
John D.
Young and dumb, not one ticket but two in the same day by the same officer. Needlessly, I learned my lesson. Even if the points never hit my license in Mi.
John D.