Eclise

This was a great post. I have been looking for the right 928 for several months now, and this post really hit home.

I think that when you buy a car as an "investment," you run the risk of not fully enjoying the car as you normally would. I like to think of my car as MY car, not something I am maintaining for the next owner. That being said, I do take very good care of my cars, so I usually get better resale as a consequence.

I can't think of the 928 as an investment, and I know I will be "upside down" the moment I purchase one. There are just so many things I like about the 928, and I hope that my love for the car will offset the cost of ownership.

When you die, you can't take your money with you; might as well spend it on something fun!

Panzer9

Shhhhhh- don't say "black hole" in front of H2 right now.Vettes & Harleys are ok- but WAY too run -of -the mill for my taste. I'd rather have a Porsche & an old Triumph, BSA, or Norton

H2

[QUOTE=docmirror;4487063]I think you're meds are affecting your head.....Sorry to hear that you're upside down on all your cars. I'm just the opposite. I don't have pristine examples, nor do I want perfect cars. I want drivers, and that's what I have. I can sell any of my cars for more than my investment with a few months of patience. It's about buying with your head, and not with your glands. QUOTE]

Iceman, you have good taste in cars.

Doc, you're right, I've been thinking too much with my glands and I'm not as savvy as you. Next week, I'll find out if said glands need to be removed. That may cure my angst.

RSKY BIZ, thanks for your kind comments.

Nevertolate...the Cliff notes version is "Just wait a while and you'll have lots of cheap 928s to choose from, a few of which will be good deals. However, if you wait too long, the really top cars may already be sitting in someone else's garage." There is no clear cut answer. Maybe Doc has some good tips?

After reading what I wrote, I myself am wondering what it means! I guess I'm still kicking myself for relying too much on the BAD PPI I got on my last 928 purchase. I really should have flown down and looked at it first hand but I didn't take the time. It's actually a good car with low-mile motor and trans and overall it's fine....but there are just too many niddling things I didn't count on buying to get it up to snuff...or I'd not paid what I did (...new radiator on order, maybe new brakes, perhaps a MAF, new AC, stuff that adds up quickly, etc). In short, it was not portrayed honestly (not even close), I'm a sucker, and I'm still pizzed as I paid way too much for this car. For the same money, I could have purchased a much better car. I knew to not move too quickly but just didn't take the extra caution I should have. I accept the blame....but I'd feel better if I could remove a few teeth from the seller. But, actually, it is a really nice looking and very strong running car in overall good shape and as soon as I get the new radiator installed and a dozen other smaller things, it should be a solid car with lots of good miles left in it. Also, it doesn't help that I'm phobic about replacing wear items with new parts...before they wear out. When I get through, it'll be a good and reliable 928. It's got quite a bit more pep than my '85S and I like that.

Hopefully someone else can learn from my bad example.

I am lucky at times though. The dash fan motor quit working on all but the highest setting...so I bought a new (hard to install) part for it. The day the new part arrived, the fan started working again.

Also, there is such a thing as having too many sports cars and not enough time to really do each justice.

I'll come down to earth in a few days. Thanks for your patience. I know some of you would like to kill me for bringing this touchy subject up again. Nevertheless, I do feel that I'm not too off-base in my thinking...but I hope that I'm wrong.

Harvey

H2

Eclise,

My brother was both a Harley dealer and a Triumph dealer. I opted for the Triumph Trophy Trail (500cc). Nice bike but the English electrics about killed me. Try having ALL electrics go out on you at 70mph on a lonely stretch of country road at 1 a.m. in the morning! No lights, no spark, nothing but a weak prayer. And my MGA's electrics weren't much better. Good or bad, I now have a serious glandular lust for German cars whose eyes (usually) open on command.

H2

Bill Ball

H2, right on! And I truly hope you get good news from the doctor. As Mel said, it hurt to read that. Many of us are in the age group where this hits close to home.

There's no doubt prices continue to fall, although for nice OBs, it seems to have slowed to a trickle. How low can you go anyway? Like the British guy in the video review said, something to the effect that "that's stupidly cheap for a car this good." My old 66 Vette increased in value during my ownership in the mid-80s, and is still increasing in value. Maybe (but I doubt it) we will get there someday, but I think the reputation of these cars being unreliable and maintenance nightmares, something people accept as part of owning a Ferrari but not a Porsche, keeps the old 928s more or less stuck in the old car class rather than collector car class.

A well-sorted 928 is a dream car to drive. Keep enjoying yours and thinking less about the reality of residual value.

redpathtribe

Harvey,

This is an interesting point. I bought my '90 GT 7 years ago from the Porsche dealer that originally sold the car. I'm the second owner and when I got it, it only had 64k miles. The dealer had serviced the car from day one and had EVERY receipt from when the car was new. The PO had just spent about $10k on the car within the last year before I bought it (rebuilt torque tube and rebuilt top end of the motor from TMB jump after water pump froze). I paid a little over $22k for the car and figured I had gotten a STEAL!! (I actually still believe that!)

My point is, I never thought I'd have to do anything to the car but "normal" maintenance. WRONG... The GT was my daily driver and within the first couple of years I had to replace the temp sensors in the head, the MAF, both fuel pumps, water pump, radiator, and more. And this was a VERY clean Arizona car. But my pea brain finally got it. It IS a beautiful car, it IS a clean car, but it is also (at the time) a 10 year old car. Parts wear out (much to me and my wallets chagrin) and on a Porsche of any kind they are not cheap. The one good thing is compared to a Ferarri, parts are cheap, or at least reasonable.

Harvey, your S4 is almost 20 years old. Most of our 928's are "older" cars now. No matter what a PPI says, or what the PO tells you, it's not necessarily their fault if parts need to be replaced. If the 928 (and therefore most of its parts) is original, I think we should count on having to replace a lot of the parts... eventually. I'm not picking on you, cause I'm looking at this with 20-20 hindsight now. I didn't see it at first either.

BTW, I hope I find that cheap '95 5-spd GTS before you do

linderpat

I really do believe that the eventual introduction of the Panamera will turn the prices of the original 928's back on an upward trend. There will be many who want the GT 2+2 Porsche but who do not want to spend the $$$ on a new one, so they'll look to the existing models out there. I think this is what drives 911 prices today and keeps them stable and (relatively speaking) high. Even old 911's hold a solid value, and that's because they keep making new ones, which keeps the brand out in the market place, and which drives prices higher as a result. Just my thought, time will tell if in fact Porsche does introduce the 2 door in 2010 or so,

ShawnSmith

I doubt that 928's will rise in price any time soon, but I didn't buy mine as an investment.

My concept was to get the 928 that I'd always dreamed of in my teens. I found a low-mile 88 S4 in excellent-but-not-concours condition. It lives in the garage and comes out to play each weekend.

Now for the value proposition: It's not going up in price, but assuming I drive it only on the weekends, it won't depreciate much - certainly far less than a new ~$15k-$20k car would over the same interval.

It costs almost nothing to insure - I got a low-mile-secondary-car policy on it.

It costs almost nothing to license - it's 20 years old, and the DMV assumes 10% depreciation per year, thus you hit min-license-fee at around year 11.

It makes driving the Acura TSX during the week bearable, so I don't feel the need to try and get a much more expensive car to do both jobs, like an M3 or something.

For one years depreciation costs on that hypothetical M3, I figure I can maintain, insure and license the 928 for a decade, with a huge smile on my face the entire time.

mj1pate

ditto...I drive in a frequency that I can afford. Things will break, but at a slower pace. I spend easily 1 hour maintenance for each hour I drive. I expect this to taper off slightly as the PM list shrinks a bit. All part of the fun.

Ditto...this works for those of us that don't take the dive into daily driving

Mine is titled as "historical". No inspections. I'm not expecting emissions notices

Personal labor is the leverage. I don't have to drive the car, so down time isn't the aggravant that it might be with a new exotic car.

Mike

928autobahndreamer

This is a pretty dead on analogy for the majority of 928 owners.

I am very happy to be one of those dogs with his "scrap". There is no way I could afford a new Porsche, or afford a 928 that has held its value (in terms of percentage of new) as well as the older 911s. When I was saving to buy my 87S4 I was praying that the prices would not climb faster than I was saving. As it is I feel I got a fantastic deal on a "driver". This car has parts that need replacing and will have a list of "to dos" that will never completely go away. But, I wouldn't have it any other way. This way I get to know this fantastic car better.

Now that I have my car I don't care too much whether values go up or not. If they stay low, I can see myself getting another 928, maybe an 86.5 5-speed to have an old body style car, and will likely but a "very good" low mile example. If they go up this will mean that the car is in higher demand and therefore more appreciated. I like the fact that I recognize the 928 as one of the best cars ever made and would feel good about more people understanding how great the 928 is.

RyanPerrella

i dont know about anyone else, but i am tired of the residual question coming up over and over and over and over again.

You bought the car, either sell it at a loss, or enjoy the thing. Why stress out over what you paid for it. You cant change that now, why even concern yourself with it. It will just stress you out. Who cares, like others have said, and you H2, you only live once. So what if you spent a couple thousand more. We all told you that low mile cars are still just as old as higher mile ones that have already has a majority of wear items replaced. You values mileage over maintanence. Ok, no problem with that but I know I for one mentioned the defered or upcoming maintanence that a low lile car will need.

Forget about the bank account at this point, and just enjoy the thing, spend 2-3K on fixing the little things it needs and just drive it and enjoy it. (Which most 928's will need regardless of how much of a peach you think thye are.) I was bored with my car, but after seeing the Turbo option, and now deciding if i want a twin screw, or Turbo, thats brought new life into my 928. Not to mention all the stereo stuff ive bought and have yet to install. Exciting times ahead. Its all relative, again, what else would you buy for $20,000 over a nice S4? A boxster maybe, but they arent in the same league as far as performance goes. And when you get a boosted 928, there isnt much of anything, boosted or stock that can then match it. Certianly not for the price of a nice 928 and the $5000-$7000 it will cost to boost it. I was considering an early 996 with aero package. Those run $30,000-$35,000 if you shop allot, but they are only 300hp, and if you want to spend 10K and get a supercharger, the SC for that car only add's 100hp, the twin screw is adding about 150 if not more to the rear wheels. We are now close to 550 hp as opposed to 420 for the SC 996, which will now have cost you $45K. Do the math, i did, thats why i am keeping mine.....at least for now.

kjurkic

My own experience so far has been positive, despite overpaying to buy.

I bought my 80 5spd back in March. Because I live in a small northern Canadian town, I didn't have the option of test-driving and comparing a few different cars. When I started to get serious on this car, the price was not outrageous, but was certainly no bargain. Had I been able to access the US, I could certainly have got a much better deal, but this would have been offset by the cost of travel, exchange, duty, inspection, and transport.

I immediately had to put on tires, and within a month did all the soft stuff under the hood. along with the upper ball joints (that was almost criminal liability defect from PO, but in his defense, a brake & suspension shop also missed them, despite my request for special attn). I get almost ill at the prices for OB's that come up in the US, not because of the "lost value", but because I would LOVE to have an extra 1 or 2 Sharks (track car & parts) but cannot access those bargains.

For those who complain about the cost of parts, have you priced out the same parts for most cars from the 90's? Even econo cars? I just bought new front wheel bearings & seals for my 928, total: $79CDN The same collection of parts for my 82 Supra - over $100. The NAPA in my small town had the bearings & seals ON THE SHELF. The Toyota parts are special order. Alternator for wife's Mazda MPV - $325CDN; for my 928 under $150

I spent more to buy my 928 than I have spent on any vehicle in over 20 years (I am an incredible tightwad regarding vehicles), and I couldn't be happier. I own a world-class sports/GT/supercar that I drive daily, and maintenance won't break me. Parts are cheap, and I do 90% of my own work.

My hope is that for the next few years the prices stay about where they are, so I can find the track and/or parts car(s) I want.

To H2, hope you get well soon, but also consider this: I know many people who look at my car and say "Well someday, I will treat myself to something like that!", then they wind up in a situation such as yours saying "I wish I would have....." Remember - you did!

Take care
Ken

H2

"I spent more to buy my 928 than I have spent on
any vehicle in over 20 years (I am an incredible
tightwad regarding vehicles), and I couldn't be
happier. I own a world-class sports/GT/supercar
that I drive daily, and maintenance won't break
me. Parts are cheap, and I do 90% of my own work." KEN

I shouldn't complain I guess. Once I've pretty well caught up on the big stuff on any P-Car i've purchased, it then becomes a very reliable car. I would drive my '85S or '94 968 anywhere in the country without a worrry as i've pretty well replaced all the major wear items. I've spent about $50 in parts on my '85 in the past two years. In the several years before that, I poured buckets of money into it. So, i think that it is possible to get a 928 into shape that it's quite reliable as a daily driver. But a car that the PO hasn't really watched carefully, finds out about some big things are about to go out, then chooses to sell, the next buyer inherits the extra cost. On the other side of the coin, the person who buys a car that has had the major work done should count himself lucky as the overall expenses will be less and more time can be spent driving than wrenching.

In the beginnoing I planned to make my '85 the daily driver and the '88 a garage queen, cherried out. The '85 is already about as good as they get. Unfortunately, the '88 is a repaint, has been in a minor wreck (one bumper replaced, another repaired, and had some undercarriage damage. The PO said it had never been in a wreck. But it tracks straight and performance is phenomenal so fixing all the niggling little leaks and creaks will make this my daily driver and I'll keep the '85S until I can get a GTS or perhaps a nce GT (if the prices contine to go down). When shopping last time around, I found lots of cars to buy but very few really good ones. (Who would want to sell a REALLY good car?).

At least my Pcars don't depreciate like my frends's M3 and M5. Although he is a bit faster the Bimmer looks aren't exciting.

Whether the prices go up or down, someone will come out better...but with the right attitude all should be happy. However I don't know anyone who likes to throw money into a car they might not have had to. It just tends to delay the custom wheels, cutom steering wheel, tear drop mirrors, supercharger, etc.

Harvey

RyanPerrella

I dont think GT's are continuing to come down. I think they were cheapest probably in the past 3 years. I havent seen a GT for under $20K in awhile. I predict the GTS's will come down into the $45K range and the S4's will probably be $15-$19, I expect the GT will split the difference. $20K difference over one year is actually really stupid, I dont expect GTS's to drop allot, I think they will drop a bit more, and I also think the GT's will raise and get into the 30K range to bridge the gap between the S4's which are fairly plentiful and the fairly rare GTS's.

But what the hell do I know. This is all just a guess. But the point is that I wouldnt anticipate anything with these cars, and certianly not the idea that GT's will decline much if at all from their current asking prices.

Charley B

There is a point in the value of an OB, and the value of an S4, where Vendors will buy them all for the value of their parts. The result is an ever dwindling supply of cars in ever better condition. Supply and demand will move the value of the survivors up until the market is stabilized. This will eventually happen with the GT's and GTS's also. The 928 world, 10 years from now, will look totally different.