Does anyone think the aftermarket timing belt tension tool is a little pricey?
03-11-2003, 11:17 PM
#61
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While the most modern Porsche tool can be used to tension the Alternator belt, to my knowledge, the JK tool has no calibration for this application. Besides, the JK tool determines belt tension based on 'twist' of the belt and the slot for belt engagement is not large enough to fit the altenator belt in it.
hth-
hth-
03-12-2003, 01:53 PM
#62
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For $59.00 I totally agree, but at the time, as I recall it the only tool available was the $400.00 factory tool.
As for factory manuals, well I have none (a few copied pages) and have done fine on the 928 over the years.
I'd take the competent mechanic with good skills and no Porsche manual over the Baffoon who has access to all of the information. Just because a shop has the manuals doesn't make them a good shop.
I worked for a guy who was big into factory manuals and claimed to know a lot. I watched him replace nearly $1,000.00 worth of stuff on a fuel injected VW Bus (2.0 Liter 914 motor). He refused to do a compression test on the motor before starting.
What he replaced:
Air Flow Meter
Plugs
Cap
Rotor
Wires
Head temp sensor
What was really wrong:
Rocker arms had backed off their pivots. Two of the cylinders were completely dead.
What the customer paid:
$1,000
What I did:
Kept my mouth shut....but I was fired later for opening it.
The mechanic who did my syncros also used the hand tension method, had been working on Porsches for MANY years and told me he never had an issue. Is it ideal, of course not, but when a tool costs $400.00 and you use it three or 4 times a year, well it is hard to justify.
I'd be interested in this tool for $59.00
As for factory manuals, well I have none (a few copied pages) and have done fine on the 928 over the years.
I'd take the competent mechanic with good skills and no Porsche manual over the Baffoon who has access to all of the information. Just because a shop has the manuals doesn't make them a good shop.
I worked for a guy who was big into factory manuals and claimed to know a lot. I watched him replace nearly $1,000.00 worth of stuff on a fuel injected VW Bus (2.0 Liter 914 motor). He refused to do a compression test on the motor before starting.
What he replaced:
Air Flow Meter
Plugs
Cap
Rotor
Wires
Head temp sensor
What was really wrong:
Rocker arms had backed off their pivots. Two of the cylinders were completely dead.
What the customer paid:
$1,000
What I did:
Kept my mouth shut....but I was fired later for opening it.
The mechanic who did my syncros also used the hand tension method, had been working on Porsches for MANY years and told me he never had an issue. Is it ideal, of course not, but when a tool costs $400.00 and you use it three or 4 times a year, well it is hard to justify.
I'd be interested in this tool for $59.00
03-12-2003, 02:11 PM
#64
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by John:
<strong>I also agree there is a time and a place for the hand-method. Sure glad I am getting married this year.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
<strong>I also agree there is a time and a place for the hand-method. Sure glad I am getting married this year.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
03-12-2003, 02:45 PM
#65
Three Wheelin'
Let's look at it this way. A mechanic who tensions 928 belts frequently in his shop MIGHT develop a "feel" for the tension. After all, repetition breeds familiarity. (insert your own "hand method" joke here).
A 928 owner who has never tensioned a timing belt, or does so only every 3-5 years probably cannot develop that "feel". It's too big of a risk for the backyard mechanic to guess an important spec. like timing belt tension.
Just wondering, how many of you use a torque wrench in the regular course of working on your sharks? I'm talking lug nuts, spark plugs, trans pan bolts, oil and trans drain bolts, etc.
Practically every bolt, nut and screw on the car has a torque spec, do you tighten to spec.? or do you do it by "feel"?
Greg
A 928 owner who has never tensioned a timing belt, or does so only every 3-5 years probably cannot develop that "feel". It's too big of a risk for the backyard mechanic to guess an important spec. like timing belt tension.
Just wondering, how many of you use a torque wrench in the regular course of working on your sharks? I'm talking lug nuts, spark plugs, trans pan bolts, oil and trans drain bolts, etc.
Practically every bolt, nut and screw on the car has a torque spec, do you tighten to spec.? or do you do it by "feel"?
Greg
03-12-2003, 06:43 PM
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Hell yes, Jay; I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone would trust feel - tons of experience or not - for any item that has a factory-recommended spec.
Mr. Bailey's incredulity is well-placed - why anyone would buy a top-performance automobile and then use "good enough" as a measure is beyond me.
Persisting in guesswork will also breed familiarity with valvetrain parts, helicoils, taps, drills, and cash flow.
<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />
Mr. Bailey's incredulity is well-placed - why anyone would buy a top-performance automobile and then use "good enough" as a measure is beyond me.
Persisting in guesswork will also breed familiarity with valvetrain parts, helicoils, taps, drills, and cash flow.
<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />
03-12-2003, 07:17 PM
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First, I'd like to say that I'm delighted to return & find that I have caused so many to get their panties all in a bundle!
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tresamore, your scathing reply got the intended chuckle out of me; my next post was not directed at you.
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Anthony, does this sound familiar?
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002517" target="_blank">"I noticed the idle roller was black on the side facing the belt. IT WAS FROZEN IN PLACE! He forced it on, screwing up the bearing. The tensioner was not only bone dry, but is full of RUST!!! ...evidently it has been dry for at least a decade."</a>
Yes, it is your post six months after you bought your car. The "tone method" had little to do with the failure, now didn't it???
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Jim, my original post was a little more tongue-in-cheek than not. I will be skeptical (but not close minded) until I hear a the twangs from a few properly adjusted belts... I will probably be using <a href="http://home.planet.nl/~Jennit/Technical/TensionTool.htm" target="_blank">the acrylic tool</a> until then.
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While I've got everyone's attention, there is <a href="http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/109/html/0922.html" target="_blank">another nice timing belt tool</a> available in many of the industrial supply catalogs for about $200.
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tresamore, your scathing reply got the intended chuckle out of me; my next post was not directed at you.
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Anthony, does this sound familiar?
<a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002517" target="_blank">"I noticed the idle roller was black on the side facing the belt. IT WAS FROZEN IN PLACE! He forced it on, screwing up the bearing. The tensioner was not only bone dry, but is full of RUST!!! ...evidently it has been dry for at least a decade."</a>
Yes, it is your post six months after you bought your car. The "tone method" had little to do with the failure, now didn't it???
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Jim, my original post was a little more tongue-in-cheek than not. I will be skeptical (but not close minded) until I hear a the twangs from a few properly adjusted belts... I will probably be using <a href="http://home.planet.nl/~Jennit/Technical/TensionTool.htm" target="_blank">the acrylic tool</a> until then.
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While I've got everyone's attention, there is <a href="http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/109/html/0922.html" target="_blank">another nice timing belt tool</a> available in many of the industrial supply catalogs for about $200.
03-12-2003, 10:03 PM
#70
Photoshop Bully
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No worries Old & New. It's all good, <img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" /> What good is talk w/o a little spice. I'm just glad we all have a comfortable spam free place to have these discussions. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
03-12-2003, 11:07 PM
#71
We had a choice?
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"Did the method work? I can't tell you, I do know it was not done correctly and I paid the price."
My panties fit quite nicely, Thank you.
Anthony Tate
79/928 Silver Metallic <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
My panties fit quite nicely, Thank you.
Anthony Tate
79/928 Silver Metallic <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
03-12-2003, 11:12 PM
#72
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Greg,
My friend used to torque everything on his Alfa Romeo GTV6, including the oil drain plug....until the oil pan cracked. Good wrench, correct setting, but the pan still split.
I do use a torque wrench on wheels, heads bolts, manifold bolts, etc. If it is a small bolt or something where torque is not that much of an issue, I go by feel.
My friend used to torque everything on his Alfa Romeo GTV6, including the oil drain plug....until the oil pan cracked. Good wrench, correct setting, but the pan still split.
I do use a torque wrench on wheels, heads bolts, manifold bolts, etc. If it is a small bolt or something where torque is not that much of an issue, I go by feel.
03-13-2003, 11:19 AM
#73
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I use a torque wrench for nearly everything on the Porsche. Finicky car. Just not on the lug nuts and the oil plug... I do those 2 by feel.
I also use the factory belt tool on my 951's timing/balance belts. I check the tension every year, so I figure it's more than paid for itself. An aftermarket tool isn't available for the 951, or I would consider it. Seems like 59 bucks isn't bad if it works.
I also use the factory belt tool on my 951's timing/balance belts. I check the tension every year, so I figure it's more than paid for itself. An aftermarket tool isn't available for the 951, or I would consider it. Seems like 59 bucks isn't bad if it works.
03-13-2003, 02:17 PM
#74
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"Chicken Bone" method...... NOW THAT IS FUNNY.
03-13-2003, 02:30 PM
#75
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Old and New,
Why would I want to pay $221.00 for a timing belt tensioner, when I can get one for $59.00 that was designed specifically for the car I wish to use it on and is stupid simple to use?
Why would I want to pay $221.00 for a timing belt tensioner, when I can get one for $59.00 that was designed specifically for the car I wish to use it on and is stupid simple to use?