JE928Sx4.

When someone verifies that Porsche designed the 928 as a musical instrument, I'll start "tuning" my shark's TB. I'm freeking half deaf, I'm not going to trust my ears to get the tention correct.

BrianG

There are a few different belt manufacturers, too. I'd not bet 32 valves and 8 pistons that they share common harmonic properties......... but then, I'm not a musician!! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Jim bailey - 928 International

I attempted to write something about those who wish to GUESS how tight the timing belt might be.......there is really nothing to say other than please do not " help " anyone else ; do what you wish to your own car ...

tresamore

I'm not rich, I don't fish, I'm tone deaf and I don't trust Chiltons manuals. So the only remaining option is Jays $60 belt tool. This thread is starting to sound like some kind of homemakers alternative remedies forum. I hear if you rub olive oil on you dash pod it will never crack. Or you could use old pudding to seal wind leaks. Another great trick is to use old soda bottles for storing your extra lug nuts, you can put an old hood emblem on it for an extra special touch. Did you know your spare tire can double as a quite attractive salad bowl when dining out with friends. Or........... <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Old & New

With all due respect, if you don't agree with something posted, then you are free to debate it... but everyone here is entitled to hear all opinions and decide for themselves what they are comfortable with. Unless there is some unspoken rule about who is entitled to free speech on this board, then please don't try to suppress my opinions! <img border="0" alt="[nono]" title="" src="graemlins/nono.gif" />

The guy (P.Eng.) who developed that tone method verified its accuracy against the Porsche gauge to a high degree of accuracy. In fact, he has a nice pictorial 928 notebook that I think everyone should look at: <a href="http://www.jageng.com/Shark%20Bit;%20Porsche%20928%20Notebook%20R%2012%2000.pdf" target="_blank">928 Notebook</a>

And I suppose the homemade tool made of acrylic is also verbotten? <a href="http://home.planet.nl/~Jennit/Technical/TensionTool.htm" target="_blank">Nice Homemade Tool</a> This gentleman also verified its accuracy and repeatability.

V-Fib

When I bought my 928, the PO said he had replaced the belt and used the "tune by ear" method. The first thing I did was order the belt tensioner gauge and manuals. The belt was so tight it ruined the rollers and assorted parts. I went and replaced the water pump and did the tensioner and belt right. Because things were so messed up it cost about $800.00 in parts alone. Not all belts are the same manufacturer. Any change in ingredients of the belt from the same manufacturer would change the tone. Not every one has perfect pitch, ect, ect. Too many variables to be comforting to me. When you think of timing belt failure and the associated costs, $60.00 is nothing. There are claims on a lot of websites, Super charging, you name it. Believe what you wish, say what you want. No one in any post that I can see, is trying to suppress anyone. We can agree to disagree. IMHO of course.

Anthony Tate
79/928 Silver Metallic <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Greg86andahalf

With the "tune by ear method, one thing is for sure. If you hear the sound of valves hitting pistons, the belt may have been set a bit too loose. <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

Old & New

Anthony,

If you can verify that the PO compared the note of his belt to that in the aformentioned sound byte, then what you have to say is very important and should be noted by all openminded Rennlisters.

If you are simply conjuring an anecdotal association between "tune by ear" and "BAD", then what you have to say is drivel.

John..

I've never had an issue with setting up 944, 928 or VW and Audi timing belts by hand. Ususlly set the VW/Audi water cooled cars with 90 degrees of twist, and less on the P-cars.

Let's face it, the belt has a range in which it operates. I don't beleive the tension is as critical as everybody makes it out to be.

There are also a lot of good shops (I know of one here in Cincy), who use the hand method and don't have belts failing or whining.

tresamore

"Unless there is some unspoken rule about who is entitled to free speech on this board, then please don't try to suppress my opinions!"

Funny, I thought I was posting my opinions about the options at hand. I think people can judge for themselves what they want to do to their cars. Thats the beauty of the forum format, OPEN discussion.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Old and New commented "With all due respect, if you don't agree with something posted, then you are free to debate it... " Actually , I truly was at a loss about where to start . When confronted with something which in my OPINION is so absurd and ridiculous that no reasonable person could possibly be serious . I guess we could pull a few 928s nose to nose and play the tune Little Brown Jug on the timing belts . Maybe my viewpoint is biased by the fact that I have 200 right side cams for 16 valve engines and 3 driver side due to broken cams from overly tight belts . Have sold nearly every 32 valve engine I ever had mostly to people who lost a belt and scrambled the top of their engine . Or maybe we are getting rich reselling the Kempf tool .....instead of engines and camshafts , gears and such . Mark , Jay Kempf , and I did have a meeting here in Anaheim just a few minutes ago , he had flown in so we were able to discuss it face to face and will continue to offer the tool for $59 . Jay did want to thank all those who made such positive comments about the tool . I am sorry , but I just can not take the tension by tone topic serious enough to begin to "debate". You are certainly entitled to believe anything you wish and post your opinion . It would however appear to be a minority opinion not shared by many if the posts to this topic are any indication .

V-Fib

The PO told me he had used this method and gave me the aforementioned website to use if I needed. Did the method work? I can't tell you, I do know it was not done correctly and I paid the price. I am not a trained Porsche Mechanic. I do have 3 years power plant and two years airframe training + 8 years as an Aircraft Mechanic. If you want to use the method, by all means, please do. There are too many variables involved for me to trust my Shark with it. If you think my opinion is "Drivel" that's okay (my wife thinks the same). This is not the first time this has been discussed on Rennlist, and it will not be the last.

Anthony Tate
79/928 SIlver Metallic <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Jim bailey - 928 International

John (of the bastard fame).."There are also a lot of good shops (I know of one here in Cincy), who use the hand method and don't have belts failing or whining." John , just one question ..How would you know they have no failures ? There are two basic "tests" I have recommended to owners of 928s . Before having a "Porsche" shop work on your 928 ask to see the factory workshop manuals and a tension tool ; it is an indication of their commitment to the 928 . For 1989 and later cars the shop really should have the diagnostic tool to down load faults . I do agree that the belt can function over a fairly wide range of tension without any immediate adverse affects . From my prospective I would rather do without new floor mats and spend the $59 to know the tension is correct . Hand jobs may have their place ..I just do not think this is one of those .

Jay Wellwood

To add to the fray...

My first year as a 928 owner, I un-did many 'improvements' by the PO. As such, the T-belt was on the top of my list, given the nature of failure.

Checking my tension was an easy task - discovering that the belt was WAY over tensioned was, shall we say, alarming (not to mention that the wire was clipped to the Pod for the warning light).

I, for one, do NOT buy into the delicate art of 'tuning by frequency' as exhibited by the 'tone' method.

Let's see here...$59 for the tool which produces reproducible results and provides assurance that the belt is at least 'in the band', or take a chance that the 'band' is 'in tune' by ear.

Hmmmm....now figure on the cost of being wrong...

32 valves @ $40/valve....2 chain tensioners @ how much???, new gaskets, labor, new belt and pump (for those truly dedicated)...geez, how many tools can you buy at this price?

IMHO...I like to think that I am a staunch supporter of 'free speech' (comments Randy???), but in this instance, this is not the issue - free speech is NOT synomonous with UTTER STUPIDITY.

My apologies for the harsh words for those that are offended, but the health and safety of at least one 928 is at risk here.

If you are one who decides to 'trust' your 928 to this 'chicken bone' methodology of ensuring that the belt is properly tensioned, and your belt fails, please contact me for an offer to take the carcass off your hands. I'm not afraid of working on the 928, and promise it a good home.

Jimbo

My wrench and I are going to try out Jay's tool first thing in the morning.

Does anyone use it to tension the alternator belt?