Emickelsen

No kidding! I wince at every little rock and foriegn object in the road. Yikes!! Railroad tracks?!? FUGETTABODIT!!

The other side is exactly the same. Heavy steering? I don't know, it's always been like that in the 2 yrs i've owned the car. It does have big understeer in a tight corner though.


Thank for the input Bill, i'll try that. Cant hurt. Thanks to you as well DRBOB. I do have a lead on a good place a friend takes his Pantera and swears by. I would need to talk to him first though to see if he could do a 928. New tires are the order of the day though. Regardless of what i do. What would I gain by leaving the old tires on, just not messing up a new pair?

I would be very interested in that clinic, and would have ZERO problem driving down there (I think a new set of rubber would survive the trip). That's an easy drive from here. If anything, mine is a great subject car for the clinic. Keep us posted on that. I am definetly there, and i can wait a couple of months.

Dude, I wouldn't make you do that! (drive up here) They don't call it BAKE-ersfield for nothing. I would easily, and gladly make the trip (with a case (or 2, or 3) of your favorite beer in hand).

All that info on this is making my head spin, and it sounds impossible. I know its one of those things that's easy once you get started, but right now it sounds intimidating. Of course so was my vacumme system, but I fixed that. Once again you people have out done yourselves, you guys are phenominal!!Thanks for everything. I'll keep you posted.

UKKid35

Put a pair of used tyres on the front if you're not able to correct the toe. It will be impossible to find a used tyre that is more dangerous than the ones you have on already.

Bill Ball

Yeah, how many miles on those tires?

AO

I'd say 2k max!

dr bob

The idea is to get the toe set now before the car is raised up to install the new tires. If you install the new tires now, you need to put 50-100 miles on them to get the front suspension completely settled. It must be settled to get a good toe reading, and you probably don't want to drive that far on your new tires with the toe out by so much. Copy out the WSM instruction pages on alignment that Bill posted above, and share them with the guy who does your work. There are also a lot of good notes in the various tips pages, and a good one in the New Users thread stickied at the top of this board.



There's a parallel thread going on the SoCal928 board for the clinic dates, and right now it's looking like 10/20 will be best for the group. It will be an interesting look at your car after you have a commercial alignment done on it and some miles down here on their settings. If I'm in town for Sharktoberfest 10/26-28, I may contact Dan Bise and Mark A to see if there's space to do a demo or two there too.

I have to stay away from beer these days, ever since that episode with the cheerleaders and the donkey painted to look like a zebra. There will be some other folks here to help you take good care of it though.


I think once we all get a chance to discuss what's going on on the car, take a look at a couple cars, and do an adjustment or two, you'll see how it all plays together. The math can be intimidating if you don't use it every day, and that's a big reason why the focus is moving towards more simple tape measure and bubble level methods, and a "move that adjustment until you see this measurement" type of instruction. It's not quite for the 'compleat idiot', closer to 'alignment for dummies' I hope.

Besides the obvious tire wear benefits, I have also been impressed with how some relatively small toe and camber adjustments can give back some noticeable handling improvements. When it's right on the money, it's like a new car.

Bill Ball

Emickelsen

Doh!! Damn, wish i would have thought of that. Put new one's on today. 'least they'll last a while.

My odometer is out right now, but those actually lasted a long time. About 9 or 10 months of regular driving i'd say. Still..................

Oh. Well...I...ah........um.......ok then. PLEASE, say no more!! The point is, it wouldn't go unappreciated. Anyhoo, i'll try to keep apraised of those dates. In the mean time, i'm going to go talk to this guy in town. Where do I find the SoCal928 thread?

dr bob

Look at the Socal928 bulletin board on MSN:

http://groups.msn.com/socal928/gener...38605459050948

You really need to drive the car enough to get the front end settled --before-- you have any alignment stuff done. Too often, folks get new tires, including raising the car up to put them on, then drive straight to the alignment shop to try to protect their new tire investment. You get all the stuff set just right on the state-of-the-art super whamadyne 9000 alignment machibe, and you feel like you've done your duty. You drive home and the car sags a little bit towards it's normal ride height. And the toe changes. A trip to church and the pool hall, toe goes out a little more. A brisk drive into the mountains to heat-cycle those new Pazoozi's, and the car is back at normal height. And the toe is now way out. A few thousand miles later, you are crying about the wear on that inner rib.

So-- plan on 50 miles of driving before you get the car on the alignment machine. Got great shocks? Maybe a few more miles. Those big lower control arm bushings take a while to get back to normal position after they've been twisted during lifting the car, and there isn't a lot you can safely do about it except drive it..


9 or 10 Months doesn't seem like much tire life to me. I push past the five-year life on 928 tires, about 15-20k miles on fronts, maybe a little more on the rears. The darn things are too expensive to replace every year, that's for sure.


It will be interesting to see how your car responds to a good alignment done after it's settled.

Emickelsen

Less than a year IS a short time. It will be next week befor I can get it to the shop anyway, and it is my DD. It should be well settled by then. I just hope this guy can do it right. Thanks for the link to SoCal. I'll let you know what happens next week.

Earl Gillstrom

E. Mickelsen
Take a look at look at my website. I have a description of the settling problem. Also there is a page that you can print out to take to the alignment shop that explains the problem.
Keep in mind that EVERY alignment tech KNOWS that you have to settle ANY car after lifting it.
So they will tell you that they know what you are talking about.
The 928 has VERY unique suspension bushings that take a set when you lift the car and take many miles to settle. NO other car in the world has this problem. As has been stated before and has been your experience, the tires wear very quickly with toe-in adjusted before the car has settled.

Emickelsen

SWEET! Thanks Earl. I'll check it out.

Emickelsen

Ok, so, I can just look at the tires and see they are toed outward. Which, to me, means they are WAY OFF!!! So until I can get it to a shop, or to the clinic in Glendale (which ever comes first), I thought i would adjust some toe in. I think someone suggested about 1/4 inch. Is there a trick for getting the tie rod off the spindle without that special tool? Or can I turn the threaded part just by loosening the retaining bolt?

Bill Ball

You can see even a degree or two of toe out, so don't go crazy with the adjustment. 1/4" on the tie rod is too much. Excessive toe-in is just as bad as toe out, except that it is easier to spot the wear.

You need a 15mm open end wrench to fit the flat area in the middle of the hollow tie rod tube and a 22mm wrench to back off the lock nut on the balljoint end. The alignment guys like to over-tighten these, so it may take a bit of grunting. Once the lock nut is loose, your turn the tie rod tube with the 15mm wrench. It rotates freely. A full turn on each side will move the total toe about a degree. To make toe more negative, you want to lengthen the tie rods, exposing more threads on the balljoint ends. This would be done by turning the the 15mm wrench DOWN on the driver side and UP on the passenger side (US) with the wrench behind the tie rod.

UKKid35

Excessive toe in is very easy to feel, the car will be virtually undriveable, whereas excessive toe out makes the steering very heavy, which the power steering will mask.

The nut may well be seized, the alignment shops often use heat to free them.

dr bob

E.: Do you have the 100 miles on the new rubber yet? No use adjusting if he car is still sitting tall. After that, you can do a basic adjustment with a laser level held against the tire sidewalls. I use blue tape tabs to mark the floor. Use the laser to shoot spots on the floor from the front and rear of each front tire, same distance fore and aft of the center of each wheel. Then it's on to the tape measure and calculator to figure out how much to adjust. Remember to adjust both sides the same amount so your rack and wheel stay centered. You'll want to verify your settings once the locknuts are tight again and the car has been rolled around some.

Some folks say you can see the toe-out or toe-in when it's off, but it would take a seriously out-of-toe condition for you to see it with a naked eye. The front fender line draws your eye crooked, and the fact that the front and rear tracks (width) are different means looking from tire to tire won't work. Measure, adjust, measure adjust, measure, adjust, measure, tighten, roll the car, measure. Then repeat as necessary.