Does 928 Shifting Ever Get to be Second Nature?
08-06-2007, 02:38 PM
#46
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There was a thread, maybe by Vilhuer, where the spring in the tranny was changed to change the position the shifter takes. Regardless, I find determining where I am to be a guessing game when I drive a 5-speed 928. There are no firm detents or gates. I've even come close to putting it in reverse a few times going from 1st to 2nd. Of course, on the track, you're only in 1st at the start. But the whole pattern is vague. It might help to have a shift plate upfront, but it would be better to make the linkage more rigid and the shifter position springs more functional/stronger.
Anyway, someone should look at the Corvette linkage more closely and see what they came up with to firm up the shifting.
Yes, Roger must love this thread. Heck, I like the autobox too (love the one you're with). My hope would be that maybe we can get somewhere with improving the 928 shift linkage, if that is really the issue and is fixable. Certainly, just refreshing the plastic bushings and making sure the pins are snug is good general maintenance, but there must be more that can be done. Getting a look at the Vette mechanism would probably help.
Anyway, someone should look at the Corvette linkage more closely and see what they came up with to firm up the shifting.
Yes, Roger must love this thread. Heck, I like the autobox too (love the one you're with). My hope would be that maybe we can get somewhere with improving the 928 shift linkage, if that is really the issue and is fixable. Certainly, just refreshing the plastic bushings and making sure the pins are snug is good general maintenance, but there must be more that can be done. Getting a look at the Vette mechanism would probably help.
08-06-2007, 02:53 PM
#47
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by SwayBar
I liked it a lot, although I'm sure it doesn't shift like a Honda S2000; what I really appreciated about it was how the gear shifter self-centered itself while in the neutral position.
Coming into Turn 5 or Canada at 140+ mph in 5th gear, one needs to be in 3rd before the turn-in for the exit. So heavy on the brakes from 140 to under 60 mph, and during that period, execute a true double-clutch which is push in the clutch and move the gear shift down from 5th (..upper right-most position in the Z06) to the neutral position and let out the clutch, blip/stomp the throttle to get the revs up, push in the clutch again and simply push the gear shift forward into 3rd gear and let out the clutch; smooth as silk transition without upsetting the chassis while rapidly approaching the turn-in. I did not even have to think about it because the gear shift always always always lined up with 3rd - 4th while in the neutral position, thus could concentrate fully on hitting my turn-in point as opposed to praying I'm in 3rd gear when I let the clutch out in the 928.
In the 928 under the same circumstances I am all thumbs, and as a result lack confidence that I'm in the proper gear, hoping to God in the back of my panicked mind after the 5 - 3 shift that I did not end up in 1st and blow up the engine when I let the clutch out due to a resultant mechanical over-rev.
What I don't like about the 928 shifter is that it feels so vague and ambiguous; there is no 'snick-snick' on a gear change. On the street it doesn't matter since comparitively, one has all day to make the downshift, while out on the track and coming in hot into a corner, one does not have that luxury.
Mark K is correct (..I can't believe I said that!
) when he stated elsewhere that shifting a 928 at-speed is an acquired art. I wish it wasn't true! 
Coming into Turn 5 or Canada at 140+ mph in 5th gear, one needs to be in 3rd before the turn-in for the exit. So heavy on the brakes from 140 to under 60 mph, and during that period, execute a true double-clutch which is push in the clutch and move the gear shift down from 5th (..upper right-most position in the Z06) to the neutral position and let out the clutch, blip/stomp the throttle to get the revs up, push in the clutch again and simply push the gear shift forward into 3rd gear and let out the clutch; smooth as silk transition without upsetting the chassis while rapidly approaching the turn-in. I did not even have to think about it because the gear shift always always always lined up with 3rd - 4th while in the neutral position, thus could concentrate fully on hitting my turn-in point as opposed to praying I'm in 3rd gear when I let the clutch out in the 928.
In the 928 under the same circumstances I am all thumbs, and as a result lack confidence that I'm in the proper gear, hoping to God in the back of my panicked mind after the 5 - 3 shift that I did not end up in 1st and blow up the engine when I let the clutch out due to a resultant mechanical over-rev.
What I don't like about the 928 shifter is that it feels so vague and ambiguous; there is no 'snick-snick' on a gear change. On the street it doesn't matter since comparitively, one has all day to make the downshift, while out on the track and coming in hot into a corner, one does not have that luxury.
Mark K is correct (..I can't believe I said that!
) when he stated elsewhere that shifting a 928 at-speed is an acquired art. I wish it wasn't true! I drove an '88 and it was just fine. Centered between 2 and 3, clutch, while not light, didn't require excessive effort, and other than having to use a few extra brain cells for the different pattern, I thought was actually a pretty nice gearbox.
The clutch issue may have partly been the difference between the single and double disc units. But the shifter - are they really just different between certain years? Sway, yours is an '89, right?
08-06-2007, 03:15 PM
#48
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Dogpile! Yes, I will agree, the 5 spd is similar to shifting a truck tranny. Let us not forget though, the car was never meant for fast shifts. 90% of us use them for other than their intended purpose.
My car is pretty fresh to a point, but the biggest thing I have found is the lubricants that are used. I just switched to Royal Purple from Redline MTL and I'm ready to drain the tranny again. This stuff just doesn't work well in my car.I might try another Redline product again or use something else. the Redline MTL was great and made for super smooth shifts, but I got brow beat as it didn't conform to Porsche's specs.
I wanted to change to see if there was anything better anyway.
Just remember, they never designed this car to for "sling" shifting.
My car is pretty fresh to a point, but the biggest thing I have found is the lubricants that are used. I just switched to Royal Purple from Redline MTL and I'm ready to drain the tranny again. This stuff just doesn't work well in my car.I might try another Redline product again or use something else. the Redline MTL was great and made for super smooth shifts, but I got brow beat as it didn't conform to Porsche's specs.
I wanted to change to see if there was anything better anyway.Just remember, they never designed this car to for "sling" shifting.
08-06-2007, 03:23 PM
#49
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Originally Posted by EC928NC
Installing my short-throw shifter and new front socket assy helped loads. It felt like I'd strapped on a whole 'nother car. 
08-06-2007, 03:31 PM
#50
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Sorry Dude I could not disagree more. The Porsche 928 is a sportscar, intended to be DRIVEN, not a comfy Lincoln as it is often made out to be, which is to be lugged around in 5th gear. I DRIVE my 5-speed, I use all the revs all the time, as well as all the gears, and the results are amazing. After seven years and 60,000 miles, the SAME CLUTCH is just as easy as always to shift. Yes not lightning but easy. It is fast enough to outperform anything I've come up against. Anything.
The shift pattern is designed for porsche racing. I find it relaxing to never have to worry about 1 or R, and know forward is 2 and back is 3.
Truck tranny? LMAO!!!! Dude .... have you driven a truck?
The shift pattern is designed for porsche racing. I find it relaxing to never have to worry about 1 or R, and know forward is 2 and back is 3.
Truck tranny? LMAO!!!! Dude .... have you driven a truck?
Originally Posted by 928ntslow
Dogpile! Yes, I will agree, the 5 spd is similar to shifting a truck tranny. Let us not forget though, the car was never meant for fast shifts. 90% of us use them for other than their intended purpose.....
08-06-2007, 03:32 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by NeverLateInMyNineTwoEight
Great to know! My shifter is the pits right now, and I will be freshening it up, including the short shifter kit. Sounds like it helps quite a bit.
08-06-2007, 03:45 PM
#52
Originally Posted by SwayBar
Upshifting is not a problem for me, it's downshifting. Skip-shifting from 5th to 3rd coming into Turn 5 or Canada Corner at RA, or just going from 4th to 3rd at Turn 14. The 928 is easily the worst shifting car I've ever driven, and I've driven a bunch.
Mike
08-06-2007, 04:15 PM
#53
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I adjusted the brake pedal lower for the old very brown 1980 so my size 14 shoe easily hits both the brake and gas makes downshifts a lot smoother.
08-06-2007, 06:14 PM
#54
When I started getting interested in 928s, I swore that it would be a cold day in hell before I would drive a Porsche with an automatic tranny.
However, after living with my GT for little over a month, I'm beginning to see the justification for the automatics..
It seems a number of shift related items were replaced on my car last September by the PO (clutch, 'Lenkgetriebemanschetten links und rechts', and I can't really complain about vagueness or sloppyness. It is heavy and notchy though, but agree with Alan and others that practice does help.
When I get back in my Golf, it feels almost toylike and is just so easy to shift - and I remember trying a friend's Honda Civic a couple of years ago and marveling at how easily it shifted compared to the Golf... (but then, Honda tends to have too light controls for my taste; at least in the Civic range).
Did some town driving yesterday, with lots of start/stops. Must admit that an automatic would have been rather blissful, compared to the physical excercise in operating the clutch and stick in my manual one.
Cheers,
Erling
However, after living with my GT for little over a month, I'm beginning to see the justification for the automatics..
It seems a number of shift related items were replaced on my car last September by the PO (clutch, 'Lenkgetriebemanschetten links und rechts', and I can't really complain about vagueness or sloppyness. It is heavy and notchy though, but agree with Alan and others that practice does help.
When I get back in my Golf, it feels almost toylike and is just so easy to shift - and I remember trying a friend's Honda Civic a couple of years ago and marveling at how easily it shifted compared to the Golf... (but then, Honda tends to have too light controls for my taste; at least in the Civic range).
Did some town driving yesterday, with lots of start/stops. Must admit that an automatic would have been rather blissful, compared to the physical excercise in operating the clutch and stick in my manual one.
Cheers,
Erling
08-06-2007, 06:38 PM
#55
I never really got comfortable with the early gearboxes until I drove early 911s. In them I learned to feel the syncros, and let the gears fall into place. You dont so much put them in gear as offer them up. Poor linkages, dragging clutches and pilot bearings and worn syncros really can have major input on how well a 928 shifts, esp. the early ones. I can make up for anything but inconsistant shift location.
In short, you get them as good as can be, and then you adjust to the car. At that point they become enjoyable to drive. Not like other cars maybe, but enjoyable for what they are, and for the satisfaction of mastery. Fun.
In short, you get them as good as can be, and then you adjust to the car. At that point they become enjoyable to drive. Not like other cars maybe, but enjoyable for what they are, and for the satisfaction of mastery. Fun.
08-06-2007, 08:10 PM
#56
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The Porsche 928 is a sportscar
But thats OK!The 928 is too heavy to be categorized as one type of car as it is capable of many things and designed to be a little more than an autobahn cruiser. It is not a car made for quicker shifting and agile turning in tight radius' with dramatic elevation changes. (In stock form of course)
Face it, it's primarily a go fast car for high speed touring.
BTW, YES, I have driven several trucks of all sizes (w/split axles too!), heavy equipment and more construction equipment then I care to remember....not to mention driving Roll's to VW Bugs.
Back on subject though. If someone (Ken or Carl someone mentioned) could come up with a better system, they might find themselves with a ton of orders!
08-06-2007, 08:19 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by SwayBar
Upshifting is not a problem for me, it's downshifting. Skip-shifting from 5th to 3rd coming into Turn 5 or Canada Corner at RA....
Elsewhere, I've grown to kind of like the old bang-about nature of the shifting. We have a 6-spd G35 and it shifts like butter, but somehow I like the old bugger's shifting better.
08-07-2007, 08:35 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by fabric
The clutch issue may have partly been the difference between the single and double disc units. But the shifter - are they really just different between certain years? Sway, yours is an '89, right?
As some have noted/suggested, I will look into the spring which centers the shifter at 2nd - 3rd which should help, but is one piece of the puzzle. As Bill has stated too, the whole pattern is vague.
I would be much happier knowing that while at speed, 1st gear would be locked out, thus would not have to worry about inadvertantly hitting it while going for 3rd on a downshift.
08-07-2007, 09:33 AM
#59
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by SwayBar
I would be much happier knowing that while at speed, 1st gear would be locked out, thus would not have to worry about inadvertantly hitting it while going for 3rd on a downshift.
If you're not centering problem is the spring, I bet that you'll find this nearly eliminates your concern. When I drove one that worked right, I had little issue going from 4 to 2, which is pretty much the same deal as that 5 to 3 that gives you jitters. With the centering not working, any shift that involved 2nd or 3rd was quite difficult, including dropping straight back from 2 to 3.
08-07-2007, 10:36 AM
#60
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Originally Posted by Swaybar
I would be much happier knowing that while at speed, 1st gear would be locked out, thus would not have to worry about inadvertently hitting it while going for 3rd on a downshift.
When the rear coupling bushings wear out, there's lots of slop from side-to-side. Mine lost one of the bushings, but the other was fine! That extra play makes it difficult to feel the tension from the spring that's supposed to keep you out of the 1-R plane.
Now that the rear is tight, there really is a 1-R lockout that's imposed by the spring in the tranny. I didn't adjust that spring, it just wasn't able to do it's job (or I couldn't feel it) until the coupling was firmed up.
Now once I leave first or reverse, I don't worry about going back over that far because it requires a little extra effort. This is enhanced by the short shifter, because every move requires slightly more effort because of less leverage, so the spring seems to be stronger, when in fact it hasn't changed.
My money is on the bushings, and I wouldn't change anything in the tranny until they are replaced.