kjurkic

I would like to get in on this if possible.....
regards
Ken

SMTCapeCod

Amen...I had a heckuva time locating an intermittent cut-out of the engine, and eventually a no-start condition. Turned out to be the safety circuit in the ignition (TSZ- mine's stupid) that tells the fuel pump it can run b/c the car is turning over and the igntion is firing. I replaced most of the ignition and fuel system before finally isolating that, because it was intermittent and erratic and consensus was that the technology was great and the parts bulletproof.
During the upgrade I learned that the OEM ignition only provided 12V during startupand operated on 6...for once, I definately subscribe to bigger is better..

hacker-pschorr

When you are making 600-700 or more horse power on a MS powered 928 with the drivability as the shark tuned 928's up here, let me know. Until then I'm sticking with my opinion.

I'm sure MS is a great setup and can do a lot of things. However, I see zero limitations on an LH-928 with the ST even heavily modified. So.......I see little need to reinvent the wheel.

On the 85-86 cars maybe since there are no knock sensors.
On the 87+ cars, no way. Unless you can prove to me MS has at least factory capable knock sensing on a 928 engine.

If I were to go 3rd party, I would stick with Autronic or AEM.

BC

Give me several weeks. My solution has knock sensing (normal locations or near).

The bling-bling boy in my just wants to be able to install the polished aluminum plates where the distributors go.

BC

Todd's Autronic stories are amazing. He says its better than the stock stuff every was with idle after a few retries and cold-night morning-start tuning sessions. Very promising. I hope I can get that with VEMS.

Lizard928

Hacker, if the stock brains were so great why didnt Louie stick with them?

The main advantages I see for CIS cars is it is a far superior system and alot of the componants just arent avalible. for L-jet cars, there brains are almost extint and if you can find one for god knows how much money, how long will it last. That combined with the fact you get to loose the AFM or barn door which is a huge hinderance in performance.

For 85/86 cars you get to add knock sensor, and a EGT sensor, again loose the MAF which is a part which does need to be replaced on most of the 928s out there.

For all 85+ cars, most I have seen with FACTORY wires, this is a good time to get new half decent wires and I can put anyone in contact with a company locally that built my wires for $225.

For 87+ cars, how many people are we aware of that have had LH brains that have needed to be rebuilt? How long will the rebuilds last, and how much do they cost again.

As well most 85+ cars that I have seen/worked on have caps and rotors that are NOT in the best of condition. And on this side of the border it costs over $200 for the caps and rotors.

Plus not only that with this system you can really increase your fuel economy by setting your AFR while cruising at your most common speeds in the 17:1 AFR and get way better gas mileage on the freeway. That itself almost pays for itself.

I personally see that there is no reason NOT to do this ESP if you are running boost in your car, or are planning it.

The other BIG bonus to MS is that it uses a MAP signal, so should you all of a sudden get a vacuum leak it reads the unmetered air and inputs the correct fuel, where as the MAF system you pop a vacuum leak under boost and your lucky if you get enough fuel in the engine. The MAF cannot correct the mix enough for a vacuum leak with boost for the tolerances we see. One nice lean spike under 12 PSI of boost or less and it is possible that all your hard earned dollars you have spent on the car will be gone.

And I am planning on running boost and pushing the internals of the engine close to the max. So imo for everything we have here, I see it as a no brainer.

hacker-pschorr

When you reach the HP Louie and/ or Todd have made (both using 3rd party systems) then that statement will make some sense.

If MS is so great, why didn't Louie use it?


Like I said, MS is a great system, just IMO unless you are running a very radical motor (like Louis) IMO it's not necessary on Shark Tunable systems.

Wow - so you are going to shoot for over 30lbs of boost?

I don't see why you are getting to uptight about this. If you are going to push an engine that far - the I agree 100% a 3rd party setup is the way to go.

mj1pate

Folks....
I didn't mean to start a culture war.
I'm sure that the LH system with advanced tuning can turn out impressive results, for those who are focused in that direction. Perhaps aftermarket can do the same...but for some of us stock performance is fine and reliability is paramount. Two tows in one week caused by an intermittent, in between otherwise perfect operation underscores that aging components carry a certain burden. If I could afford to carry spares of all critical components with me, that would be the end of it. I'll certainly get past this one, since I now have a hard failure. Standing on the side of the road for 5 hours Friday night and missing 2.5 hours of work yesterday caused an epiphany that SOMETHING needs to be done.

Mike

John Veninger

I won't speak for Louie, but I chose to run a DTA Pro on my track car. Simple for me to decide since it was an 80 CIS car with no computers AND Louie shared his development with me. My application was track only, so I didn't care about the "drivablilty" as low rpm and idle speeds.

The biggest factor in an after market system is the amount of dyno/tuning time you will need to get it right. Yes, you can get the car to run reasonable well in several hours and then take a 100 more hours to get it to real life street level. Starting at 32 degrees, running the right A/F in 100 degree stop and go traffic with the AC on, ect.

mj1pate

Good point....Can those with conversions relate as to how much time they needed to get their car to satisfactory drivability? (not counting hours applied to tweaking for subtle performance)

Mike Simard

I've done a MSII/EDIS conversion and would drive around for weeks with the lap top hooked up logging data. When I got home I would review data, make minor tweaks and drive it with new settings the next day. It can be a very rewarding experience if you're into that sort of thing. My car, the Cobra in my avatar, eventually had maps so optimal I never used O2 sensor correction when running because all possible conditions were covered by the map. Tuning is alot harder with a monster motor and most of the work will be stuff like hot starting and off idle throttle response, a gentler stock type motor will be much easier.

RngTrtl

In my experience with the MS, 90% of my time was spent on study, homework, and wiring; the other 10% was for the basic tuning to get it to idle/run well. I would never suggest the MS to anyone that only has a basic knowledge of cars and or electronics, and expertice. Much the same way that I would not recommend for someone to rebuild an engine if they only know how to change the oil. The MS is a very complicated piece of equipment with so many options that it can get overwheming. With that said I LOVE the MS and would never boost w/o it, but that is just my opinion.

mj1pate

As I would expect....My initiative is to get a working car again, and plan a migration well ahead of the implementation.

How may MS implemetors have tuned an essentially stock engine and can share maps?

Lizard928

Mj1pate, getting the car driveable, esp in your case with an auto is alot easier than with a 5 speed,

and getting the correct AFR for sitting in stop and go is the same as if you are idling at home, so I am not sure what is being refered to there.

I have maps for MSII v3.0 that you could upload into the ms, turn the key and drive pretty much (would need alittle car specific tuning).

as mike has said monster motors are much harder to tune as well because next thing you know you are doing break neck speeds on public roads, the only part which I havent tuned into mine is the idle stable valve as I need to add a diode to the circuit first. However all that means is that you have to hold the throttle open abit when cold, so no real issue there.

mj1pate

Thanks again....as mentioned; I'll be in touch about this

Mike