Hello! I'm Delta P...
01-15-2003, 02:02 AM
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Hello! I'm Delta P...
Hi, my name is Chris Clouser. I am a Mechanical/Electrical Engineer and fellow 928 owner. I have nearly finished developing a supercharger kit for the 928. I did not want to say anything until the kit was COMPLETE (as this is what it seems everybody wants and I aim to please), meaning every nut and bolt was totally thought out. At this point, the kit may only be considered COMPREHENSIVE, meaning the major stuff is done, and most people could tie up the loose ends on their own.
Why did I get involved in this adventure? Well, at first it was all so innocent. About 6 months ago, Eric Munck solicited my services, as he was disappointed with the quality and cost of the FAST components that he was installing on the White GTS (now please note, what Eric does on the GTS is his business, not mine. If I can help him in any way, though, I will). I thought, cool, I?ll design the parts and then make some for myself. Well, the problem is that the parts came out so nice that it would be a crime to keep them to myself. And so Delta P Power was born.
Eric?s primary concern was that he was hearing from other FAST users that their SC belt was slipping at higher boost levels (perhaps above 6 psi. where the kit maybe wasn?t designed to go). We quickly determined three sources of potential problems that may would contribute to the slippage: bracket flex, belt routing, and pulley tooth profile. (NOTE: the belt does need to slip a little or the blower may fail or at least have a reduced service life due to increased loads through the gearbox.)
Bracket Flex: The FAST bracket does flex. I saw it with my own eyes. By leaning on the bracket (not standing on it, guys that?s preposterous), I could see with my own eyes that the blower was moving. I may be able to put 100 or 150 lbs on the bracket so imagine the roughly 500 lb at 8 psi.! Or even roughly 400 lbs at 6 psi. which the bracket was supposedly designed for.
The FAST bracket is a welded assembly that is made of .375 inch aluminum plate. The welded structure cannot be decently anodized and it should be heat treated to renew it?s mechanical properties after welding. The Delta P bracket is .750 inch aluminum plate, bolted, pinned and bonded. Even our bracket flexes, so anyone who says that the FAST one doesn?t, needs a refresher course on cantilever theory. All things being equal, the Delta P bracket will flex roughly ½ the amount that FAST?s flexes.
The other significant change in the bracket is the integral belt tensioner. The tensioner is a stressed member to help stiffen the bracket a little.
Belt Routing: FAST routes their SC belt around the PS pump. Running the SC belt independent of accessories has many advantages. One is that the velocity of the belt to the supercharger needs to be much higher than to the PS pump. I simply put the SC on it?s own pulley and the PS pump on it?s own pulley.
Tooth Profile: SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), Vortech, and Gates (the belt manufacturer) recommend a very different profile than that used by FAST. I used this profile to minimize belt slippage. I?m told by one of our customers that the infamous FAST belt wander was eliminated by the adaptation of our crank pulley.
Other Stuff:
The accessories are overdriven on the FAST kit. In excess of 200%. FAST claims that it works fine. I?d rather not second-guess the Porsche engineers regarding the optimal and safe operational speed of vital components. A PS pump failure at redline in fourth or fifth gear would be a real bummer.
The SC pulley on the crank was enlarged to provide higher boost. To provide higher boost this pulley has to be enlarged, the SC pulley needs to be decreased or both. Bigger pulleys provide more traction on the belt and less wear. On the lower boost applications, the user will benefit from less slippage and longer longevity of the belt.
The A/C pulley on the crank was matched to the diameter of the GTS. This underdrives the A/C compressor on the S4 a tad. I would rather underdrive the accessories a small bit rather than overdrive them a lot.
The FAST bracket attaches to the front of the water pump with 3 bolts. The load path goes from the bracket into the water pump and then from the pump into the block. The pump is the middle-man. It carries all the stress. I too used the three bolts, but added a direct load path from the bracket to the block to share the work. This is done by removing the two upper pump bolts and installing long bolts directly into the block. As far as I know the FAST solution is perfectly fine, but the Delta P kit is being tailored for even higher levels of boost and therefore need more support.
FAST uses the dipstick tube as an oil return for the SC. Eric found a wonderful place in the block for an SAE bulkhead for the return. It is probably the cleanest way to return the oil to the pan. But the problem is that to drill and tap the boss without getting metal flakes into the oil is to remove the oil pan. I don?t think most kit installers will appreciate this approach. My thought is to have a separate oiling system for the SC. A small tank and pump is all that?s needed. I wouldn?t mind getting some feedback on this.
There are many other details I am working on as well as a web site and installation manual. I was hoping to have all this finished before introducing myself in order to avoid the barrage of questions that will undoubtedly ensue, but the cat was let out of the bag a little too early.
Now I?m not trying to disparage FAST with all this. Once again, we have seen that their kit is workable in the lower boost range with some minor modifications being the typical modus-operandus. I am merely pointing out WHY I decided to do my own kit and WHAT I did. I have tried to honestly point out the differences between the two kits as I see it.
As some have mentioned, the people currently out there who are already supercharged are using FAST components. Most of the ones we are hearing about on a regular basis have done a lot of mods to the original kit. FAST has, I think, taken much of the advice of these individuals to improve their kit. They take most of the credit themselves, when in fact these tuners deserve the bulk of the credit. I believe these tuners over the years have made their knowledge part of this community. With all the new players, especially you roots guys, this knowledge continues to expand.
I think we all share a common goal: to stop getting spanked by these damn Beemers!!!
Remember, it?s all in fun.
If you need more info please contact me directly through the mail link above.
Thanks
chris
Why did I get involved in this adventure? Well, at first it was all so innocent. About 6 months ago, Eric Munck solicited my services, as he was disappointed with the quality and cost of the FAST components that he was installing on the White GTS (now please note, what Eric does on the GTS is his business, not mine. If I can help him in any way, though, I will). I thought, cool, I?ll design the parts and then make some for myself. Well, the problem is that the parts came out so nice that it would be a crime to keep them to myself. And so Delta P Power was born.
Eric?s primary concern was that he was hearing from other FAST users that their SC belt was slipping at higher boost levels (perhaps above 6 psi. where the kit maybe wasn?t designed to go). We quickly determined three sources of potential problems that may would contribute to the slippage: bracket flex, belt routing, and pulley tooth profile. (NOTE: the belt does need to slip a little or the blower may fail or at least have a reduced service life due to increased loads through the gearbox.)
Bracket Flex: The FAST bracket does flex. I saw it with my own eyes. By leaning on the bracket (not standing on it, guys that?s preposterous), I could see with my own eyes that the blower was moving. I may be able to put 100 or 150 lbs on the bracket so imagine the roughly 500 lb at 8 psi.! Or even roughly 400 lbs at 6 psi. which the bracket was supposedly designed for.
The FAST bracket is a welded assembly that is made of .375 inch aluminum plate. The welded structure cannot be decently anodized and it should be heat treated to renew it?s mechanical properties after welding. The Delta P bracket is .750 inch aluminum plate, bolted, pinned and bonded. Even our bracket flexes, so anyone who says that the FAST one doesn?t, needs a refresher course on cantilever theory. All things being equal, the Delta P bracket will flex roughly ½ the amount that FAST?s flexes.
The other significant change in the bracket is the integral belt tensioner. The tensioner is a stressed member to help stiffen the bracket a little.
Belt Routing: FAST routes their SC belt around the PS pump. Running the SC belt independent of accessories has many advantages. One is that the velocity of the belt to the supercharger needs to be much higher than to the PS pump. I simply put the SC on it?s own pulley and the PS pump on it?s own pulley.
Tooth Profile: SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), Vortech, and Gates (the belt manufacturer) recommend a very different profile than that used by FAST. I used this profile to minimize belt slippage. I?m told by one of our customers that the infamous FAST belt wander was eliminated by the adaptation of our crank pulley.
Other Stuff:
The accessories are overdriven on the FAST kit. In excess of 200%. FAST claims that it works fine. I?d rather not second-guess the Porsche engineers regarding the optimal and safe operational speed of vital components. A PS pump failure at redline in fourth or fifth gear would be a real bummer.
The SC pulley on the crank was enlarged to provide higher boost. To provide higher boost this pulley has to be enlarged, the SC pulley needs to be decreased or both. Bigger pulleys provide more traction on the belt and less wear. On the lower boost applications, the user will benefit from less slippage and longer longevity of the belt.
The A/C pulley on the crank was matched to the diameter of the GTS. This underdrives the A/C compressor on the S4 a tad. I would rather underdrive the accessories a small bit rather than overdrive them a lot.
The FAST bracket attaches to the front of the water pump with 3 bolts. The load path goes from the bracket into the water pump and then from the pump into the block. The pump is the middle-man. It carries all the stress. I too used the three bolts, but added a direct load path from the bracket to the block to share the work. This is done by removing the two upper pump bolts and installing long bolts directly into the block. As far as I know the FAST solution is perfectly fine, but the Delta P kit is being tailored for even higher levels of boost and therefore need more support.
FAST uses the dipstick tube as an oil return for the SC. Eric found a wonderful place in the block for an SAE bulkhead for the return. It is probably the cleanest way to return the oil to the pan. But the problem is that to drill and tap the boss without getting metal flakes into the oil is to remove the oil pan. I don?t think most kit installers will appreciate this approach. My thought is to have a separate oiling system for the SC. A small tank and pump is all that?s needed. I wouldn?t mind getting some feedback on this.
There are many other details I am working on as well as a web site and installation manual. I was hoping to have all this finished before introducing myself in order to avoid the barrage of questions that will undoubtedly ensue, but the cat was let out of the bag a little too early.
Now I?m not trying to disparage FAST with all this. Once again, we have seen that their kit is workable in the lower boost range with some minor modifications being the typical modus-operandus. I am merely pointing out WHY I decided to do my own kit and WHAT I did. I have tried to honestly point out the differences between the two kits as I see it.
As some have mentioned, the people currently out there who are already supercharged are using FAST components. Most of the ones we are hearing about on a regular basis have done a lot of mods to the original kit. FAST has, I think, taken much of the advice of these individuals to improve their kit. They take most of the credit themselves, when in fact these tuners deserve the bulk of the credit. I believe these tuners over the years have made their knowledge part of this community. With all the new players, especially you roots guys, this knowledge continues to expand.
I think we all share a common goal: to stop getting spanked by these damn Beemers!!!
Remember, it?s all in fun.
If you need more info please contact me directly through the mail link above.
Thanks
chris
01-15-2003, 03:25 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Hey Chris,
Glad to hear of another supercharger option. Personally I was disappointed at what was being done, but glad to see such a strong interest. Is your kit a complete bolt on kit? What supercherger do you use? And the real questions, when and how much?
BJ
Glad to hear of another supercharger option. Personally I was disappointed at what was being done, but glad to see such a strong interest. Is your kit a complete bolt on kit? What supercherger do you use? And the real questions, when and how much?
BJ
01-15-2003, 05:05 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Hi Chris,
Thanks for "de-lurking", even if you didn't think the time was right. The more information in the way of facts we can get out here, the better.
I for one am quite interested in this supercharging thread and am a potential customer, when I am convinced that the engineering going into and the maintanance requirements coming out of the kit are approximately on par with Porsche original (and that's a very tall order). I don't need mega-power but I do need high reliability, and I never want to mess with it after initial setup. (By the way, I do not consider the first 2 years after installation "initial setup").
Just to toss some more questions into the fray...
a) do you plan to support for the 1983 US model with AFM? When?
b) Um, any chance of getting these things CA-smog-legal certified?
c) What's your approach to fuel requirements? I certainly like the idea of an all-original system with only the addition of an RRFPR.
By the way, I like your suggestion of using a separate oil tank & pump -- the less invasive into original systems, the better, if it's done cleanly.
Thanks! Hopefully by the time I can put together $5K somebody will have this all sorted out <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Rick
Thanks for "de-lurking", even if you didn't think the time was right. The more information in the way of facts we can get out here, the better.
I for one am quite interested in this supercharging thread and am a potential customer, when I am convinced that the engineering going into and the maintanance requirements coming out of the kit are approximately on par with Porsche original (and that's a very tall order). I don't need mega-power but I do need high reliability, and I never want to mess with it after initial setup. (By the way, I do not consider the first 2 years after installation "initial setup").
Just to toss some more questions into the fray...
a) do you plan to support for the 1983 US model with AFM? When?
b) Um, any chance of getting these things CA-smog-legal certified?
c) What's your approach to fuel requirements? I certainly like the idea of an all-original system with only the addition of an RRFPR.
By the way, I like your suggestion of using a separate oil tank & pump -- the less invasive into original systems, the better, if it's done cleanly.
Thanks! Hopefully by the time I can put together $5K somebody will have this all sorted out <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Rick
01-15-2003, 08:24 AM
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Chris...
"My thought is to have a separate oiling system for the SC. A small tank and pump is all that’s needed. I wouldn’t mind getting some feedback on this."
If you use a ProCharger, you don't have to worry about an oil supply as it's all self contained, and only needs to be changed every 6,000 miles. That's once every two engine oil changes although admittedly I'd probably change it when I changed the engine oil; cheap insurance.
Hmm, I guess if you used a ProCharger, there goes your existing brackets. If it's not too traumatic to design a set of ProCharger brackets, your oiling dilemma would be elegantly solved by the KISS principle. At the very least, you’d be able to offer potential customers a choice between using a Vortech or a ProCharger.
A very real added benefit of a self contained unit is that if something catastrophic happened to the supercharger itself, you won't have to rebuild your engine due to it's debris fouling the engine through the shared oiling system.
What is your price guess-timate, and what is an approximate time of delivery for the completed kit?
"My thought is to have a separate oiling system for the SC. A small tank and pump is all that’s needed. I wouldn’t mind getting some feedback on this."
If you use a ProCharger, you don't have to worry about an oil supply as it's all self contained, and only needs to be changed every 6,000 miles. That's once every two engine oil changes although admittedly I'd probably change it when I changed the engine oil; cheap insurance.
Hmm, I guess if you used a ProCharger, there goes your existing brackets. If it's not too traumatic to design a set of ProCharger brackets, your oiling dilemma would be elegantly solved by the KISS principle. At the very least, you’d be able to offer potential customers a choice between using a Vortech or a ProCharger.
A very real added benefit of a self contained unit is that if something catastrophic happened to the supercharger itself, you won't have to rebuild your engine due to it's debris fouling the engine through the shared oiling system.
What is your price guess-timate, and what is an approximate time of delivery for the completed kit?
01-15-2003, 09:15 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
Hi Chris,
Glad to hear there is another person working on the SC solution.
I do have a few questions however.
"" Eric Munck solicited my services, as he was disappointed with the quality and cost of the FAST components that he was installing on the White GTS ""
First off, how could Eric be dissappointed with the cost of the FAST products? My understanding is that he hasn't paid for ANY of them as of yet.
Judging by what has come out regarding Mr. Munck, do you intend to supply him components for free? Do you really want to be associated with a guy that has thoroughly botched two SC installations? It is beyond my comprehension as to why any honest person would associate with him in any way shape or form. Or is this part of the con too?
""Eric?s primary concern was that he was hearing from other FAST users ""
Who are these FAST users? I have yet to hear from a single one that has had the problems you suggest.
""The accessories are overdriven on the FAST kit. In excess of 200%. FAST claims that it works fine. ""
In a post yesterday from FAST it was stated that their pulleys drive the accesories at stock speed. The first one sent to Tim Murphy was running too fast and was corrected three years ago.
""Most of the ones we are hearing about on a regular basis have done a lot of mods to the original kit. FAST has, I think, taken much of the advice of these individuals to improve their kit. They take most of the credit themselves,""
Funny, In this post FAST gives credit to some folks that have helped out. I think you BADLY mis-characterize them.
""Thruth is, there are only 5 people in the United United states that really know about supercharging the 928 in a reliable, powerful, tuned fashion:""
It goes on to list people and their contributions.
So as usual there are several sides to the story. I do applaud any contributions you make to the effort. I agree, it is all with the intent of having some FUN.
I do seriously question (see above) anybody that has ANY affilliation to Eric Munck. Anybody that openly advertises a six week $2500 supercharger install, then proceeds to spend tens of thousands of the customers dollars over the course of six to nine months, scares me. During said installations, he was clearly LYING to the customers to cover up is obvious inability to do this type of work in a competant fashion. Witness the fact that FAST has 25 kits on the street. Many installed by the owners themselves. Now this claimed pro, Mr. Munck, comes along a literally ruins two customers cars, GTS's no less, and you are comfortable associating yourself with him, better yet, offering to help him???? He needs help alright. If it had been my car he screwed up that bad, he would need legal help, maybe medical help but, certainly not help from what sounds like an intelligent capable engineer.
Best of luck in your endevors. I hope you are able to put together a "better" kit. The 928 community would be better for it.
Glad to hear there is another person working on the SC solution.
I do have a few questions however.
"" Eric Munck solicited my services, as he was disappointed with the quality and cost of the FAST components that he was installing on the White GTS ""
First off, how could Eric be dissappointed with the cost of the FAST products? My understanding is that he hasn't paid for ANY of them as of yet.
Judging by what has come out regarding Mr. Munck, do you intend to supply him components for free? Do you really want to be associated with a guy that has thoroughly botched two SC installations? It is beyond my comprehension as to why any honest person would associate with him in any way shape or form. Or is this part of the con too?
""Eric?s primary concern was that he was hearing from other FAST users ""
Who are these FAST users? I have yet to hear from a single one that has had the problems you suggest.
""The accessories are overdriven on the FAST kit. In excess of 200%. FAST claims that it works fine. ""
In a post yesterday from FAST it was stated that their pulleys drive the accesories at stock speed. The first one sent to Tim Murphy was running too fast and was corrected three years ago.
""Most of the ones we are hearing about on a regular basis have done a lot of mods to the original kit. FAST has, I think, taken much of the advice of these individuals to improve their kit. They take most of the credit themselves,""
Funny, In this post FAST gives credit to some folks that have helped out. I think you BADLY mis-characterize them.
""Thruth is, there are only 5 people in the United United states that really know about supercharging the 928 in a reliable, powerful, tuned fashion:""
It goes on to list people and their contributions.
So as usual there are several sides to the story. I do applaud any contributions you make to the effort. I agree, it is all with the intent of having some FUN.
I do seriously question (see above) anybody that has ANY affilliation to Eric Munck. Anybody that openly advertises a six week $2500 supercharger install, then proceeds to spend tens of thousands of the customers dollars over the course of six to nine months, scares me. During said installations, he was clearly LYING to the customers to cover up is obvious inability to do this type of work in a competant fashion. Witness the fact that FAST has 25 kits on the street. Many installed by the owners themselves. Now this claimed pro, Mr. Munck, comes along a literally ruins two customers cars, GTS's no less, and you are comfortable associating yourself with him, better yet, offering to help him???? He needs help alright. If it had been my car he screwed up that bad, he would need legal help, maybe medical help but, certainly not help from what sounds like an intelligent capable engineer.
Best of luck in your endevors. I hope you are able to put together a "better" kit. The 928 community would be better for it.
01-15-2003, 10:30 AM
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Again and again, the only dirt anyone can pull out of the cracks on our kits is OLD STUFF that's been corrected years ago. Big Deal. Eric was specifically told he was getting a prototype bracket to use on "his" race car since cuts/quality were irrelevant. What a snake.
Geez, can't anyone read?
Also, "Delta P" has worked with Erik, then he worked with our stolen designs. Erik, after HUNDREDS of emails and 20-40 un-returned phone calls still refuses to pay for his kits (2). If you worked with Erik, that says a bit about your character. I've seen the copied "monster" brackets: quite a bit of overkill for such a simple project right? PLease, we're not supercharging Mac trucks.
IF any of our components had ever failed, I could see the reason to redesign them. The only reason Erik/Delta P did change them is because: they had ours to go by (stolen of course), and since it would look different (bolted together??), it would'nt appear to be a direct copy.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that people purchase this "Delta P" kit and have a first-hand "Erik" experience. If you've not learned enough by all this so far, you really do deserve to be screwed by him.
Learn people, listen & learn.
MarkR(FAST)
Geez, can't anyone read?
Also, "Delta P" has worked with Erik, then he worked with our stolen designs. Erik, after HUNDREDS of emails and 20-40 un-returned phone calls still refuses to pay for his kits (2). If you worked with Erik, that says a bit about your character. I've seen the copied "monster" brackets: quite a bit of overkill for such a simple project right? PLease, we're not supercharging Mac trucks.
IF any of our components had ever failed, I could see the reason to redesign them. The only reason Erik/Delta P did change them is because: they had ours to go by (stolen of course), and since it would look different (bolted together??), it would'nt appear to be a direct copy.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND that people purchase this "Delta P" kit and have a first-hand "Erik" experience. If you've not learned enough by all this so far, you really do deserve to be screwed by him.
Learn people, listen & learn.
MarkR(FAST)
01-15-2003, 12:25 PM
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Delta P, your email link is not enabled.
MarkR - the tone of your response does little to hold you and your company above the fray.
If this thread becomes yet another Eric Munck bash-fest it will be removed.
Please handle yourselves accordingly.
MarkR - the tone of your response does little to hold you and your company above the fray.
If this thread becomes yet another Eric Munck bash-fest it will be removed.
Please handle yourselves accordingly.
Trending Topics
01-15-2003, 12:49 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Kudos Randy, I think you are making a good call with that post.
I think there is a frustration level that Mark is dealing with. There has been bad information about his company spread about. I don't blame him for being upset but, we do need to remain civil ( I will try too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )
I don't see anything wrong with making improvements to a product, independant of how a prototype was procured. I think Chris may be onto some things with a stronger bracket designed for higher boost. Obviously there are some with a hunger for 6, 8, 10, 12 lbs of boost.
I don't like unsubstantiated claims though. If you are going to claim that FAST customers are somehow unhappy with the kits, produce those folks here. I would like to hear about the trials. I am sure Mark would as well, since he built and sold the kits.
I think there is a frustration level that Mark is dealing with. There has been bad information about his company spread about. I don't blame him for being upset but, we do need to remain civil ( I will try too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )
I don't see anything wrong with making improvements to a product, independant of how a prototype was procured. I think Chris may be onto some things with a stronger bracket designed for higher boost. Obviously there are some with a hunger for 6, 8, 10, 12 lbs of boost.
I don't like unsubstantiated claims though. If you are going to claim that FAST customers are somehow unhappy with the kits, produce those folks here. I would like to hear about the trials. I am sure Mark would as well, since he built and sold the kits.
01-15-2003, 01:45 PM
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Randy V. I totally support your decision and am confident you will do the right thing. I believe we have had enough venomous postings to last for the next couple of years. Personally, I am happy to see someone else working on the SC project, and I want to encourage anyone to participate. I love my '82 928, and am always looking for ways to improve it's performance.
01-15-2003, 01:50 PM
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Given that FAST has been into it for several years with the only kit out there, *25* to boot, I don't think Mark is unwarranted in defending his position.
Not that anyone can "own" the design of an accessory bracket unless it is a unique patentable product, but it is quite understandable that he would get peeved about a competitor "borrowing" the design.
Don't worry, Mark, your track record will provide all the defense you need in the 928 community. No need to get into a pissing match with the others; it is unnecessary and distasteful.
Personally, I think that it wouldn't hurt to update your website with new developments, more pictures, etc. to reflect your sucess with the kit.
Not that anyone can "own" the design of an accessory bracket unless it is a unique patentable product, but it is quite understandable that he would get peeved about a competitor "borrowing" the design.
Don't worry, Mark, your track record will provide all the defense you need in the 928 community. No need to get into a pissing match with the others; it is unnecessary and distasteful.
Personally, I think that it wouldn't hurt to update your website with new developments, more pictures, etc. to reflect your sucess with the kit.
01-15-2003, 02:37 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">...it wouldn't hurt to update your website with new developments, more pictures, etc. to reflect your sucess with the kit.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">I agree, this is the best tactic.
I can't follow any of this mess, can't we just have a bolt-on supercharger kit (or two), and have some 'Dude, I totally beat up on that M5 ' stories instead?
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
I can't follow any of this mess, can't we just have a bolt-on supercharger kit (or two), and have some 'Dude, I totally beat up on that M5 ' stories instead?
<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
01-16-2003, 12:00 AM
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Just a thought...... Mark / Chris.
A quick cruise through the Summit Racing catalogue will reveal that the typical Vortec-based S/C kit runs in the $2k-$3k range. Yes, I know that there is an economy of scale there, but the greatest part of the "kit" isn't in the 928 proprietary stuff. Why double the price?
A quick cruise through the Summit Racing catalogue will reveal that the typical Vortec-based S/C kit runs in the $2k-$3k range. Yes, I know that there is an economy of scale there, but the greatest part of the "kit" isn't in the 928 proprietary stuff. Why double the price?
01-16-2003, 02:28 AM
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Larry M said, "I believe we have had enough venomous postings to last for the next couple of years."
I don't know.... I sort of enjoy a venomous posting or two..;-) It keeps things lively on here.
I think people should be allowed to say what's on their minds. As long as it does not get into personal attacks, a bit of passion and/or emotion is a good thing.
Just my $.928
Best to all,
Joe Ferguson
'88 S4 A/T Black/Cashmere (her driver)
'83S Euro 5sp Pewter/Black (my project) about which I have venomous things to say frequently.
I don't know.... I sort of enjoy a venomous posting or two..;-) It keeps things lively on here.
I think people should be allowed to say what's on their minds. As long as it does not get into personal attacks, a bit of passion and/or emotion is a good thing.
Just my $.928
Best to all,
Joe Ferguson
'88 S4 A/T Black/Cashmere (her driver)
'83S Euro 5sp Pewter/Black (my project) about which I have venomous things to say frequently.
01-16-2003, 11:39 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
In addition to Tim's car running over double the boost the kit was designed for, Marcus is also running 15 psi on a "stock" FAST bracket.
I guess that pretty much puts the baby to bed. There is NO NEED for a new bracket.
Until I see even ONE post by somebody having problems, I simply do not buy it. I keep hearing about all of these FAST customers complaining about the brackets and pulleys. Am I alone on this? Has somebody else got first hand experience with a problem related to this kit? I have yet to see a shred of actual proof that there are ANY problems, other than those confined to a certain SoCal shop.
I guess that pretty much puts the baby to bed. There is NO NEED for a new bracket.
Until I see even ONE post by somebody having problems, I simply do not buy it. I keep hearing about all of these FAST customers complaining about the brackets and pulleys. Am I alone on this? Has somebody else got first hand experience with a problem related to this kit? I have yet to see a shred of actual proof that there are ANY problems, other than those confined to a certain SoCal shop.