Terrorism
09-13-2001, 05:04 PM
#61
Burning Brakes
I think we all have to realize that we are all citizens of the world. An attack on the USA is an attack on all freedom loving people. Do YOU get it?
US support for other countries means we are involved. What happens to them, and as we all know now, can happen to us.
We should be interested with what is going on in other countries. The world is getting smaller, and we are a big player in the global market. When their markets falter, ours is usually adversely affected, and visversa.
When peoples are oppressed, we (and many others) usually come to their aide. When populations are devistated as a result of a natural catastrophe, we (and others) go to their aide. We do so because we are good neighbors, and we think ourselves to be decent citizens of the world.
Apparently, most other countries have offered to help the US cope with its tragedy. Clearly, they are our good neighbors too. Instead of shunning them, we should be thankful we have such good friends throughout the world.
Please don't say you don't care what happens here or there. It makes you seem petty and self absorbed. I hope most Americans don't think you are right. I know I don't.
Peace.
US support for other countries means we are involved. What happens to them, and as we all know now, can happen to us.
We should be interested with what is going on in other countries. The world is getting smaller, and we are a big player in the global market. When their markets falter, ours is usually adversely affected, and visversa.
When peoples are oppressed, we (and many others) usually come to their aide. When populations are devistated as a result of a natural catastrophe, we (and others) go to their aide. We do so because we are good neighbors, and we think ourselves to be decent citizens of the world.
Apparently, most other countries have offered to help the US cope with its tragedy. Clearly, they are our good neighbors too. Instead of shunning them, we should be thankful we have such good friends throughout the world.
Please don't say you don't care what happens here or there. It makes you seem petty and self absorbed. I hope most Americans don't think you are right. I know I don't.
Peace.
09-13-2001, 06:10 PM
#62
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Attleboro, MA
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Folks,
I've read every post on this subject and must confess my ignorance on the subject of Arab, Isreai and American relations. After the horrible events we (humanity) are facing, I've been reading everything on the subject that I can get my hands on (thank god for the internet). I have found the issue most complex with valid points of contention on all sides (Arab, Isreali and American). I have even learned things our American government may have done in our names that I'm struggling with. While I don't know for sure that there true I'm not so naive to think that they couldn't have happened.
having said that, I can't think of anything that could justify the acts of these animals. Their actions have brought out feelings in all of us that I think are the cause of some of our bickering. I know I'm haveing a hard time containing my anger and I'm ashamed of some of my thoughts. My refuge has been prayer, thought and education. My heart and prayers go out to anyone touched by this tragedy, but especially to the kids who've lost parents. I don't know or even have the strength to look into my kids little eyes and explain these evil acts, let alone a childs whose life will be forever scarred as a result. These kids, of all races and religions, don't know or care about these conflicts and are completely innocent....and they will pay a lifetime of memories and pain for it. As I wretch at these thoughts, I realized that this has been happening all over the world for WAY TOO LONG! We Americans, have been so lucky, and in may ways unlucky, that we have been so insulated from these events for so long. When I have seen similar events in the news, I'm guilty of not giving it enough care! I feel HORRIBLE and USELESS that it took this event to make me see that every life matters. Where was my outrage when 150 were killed in a hi-jacked plane ? Or when 25 were killed by a car bomb? Or when 1 was dragged behind a pick-up truck to his horrible death... and for what, hate? DO these lives count less? I am so sorry for what I am, and for what I failed to be.
I would like eveyone in the world to know just how greatful we Americans are for the outpouring of support we have received. Please know that we have not forgotten that so many of yours have fallen with us and those that hahve gone befor. I ask forgiveness for my ignorance and pledge to do better. I ask all of us to join together towards making things better. Lets not argue over things many of us can't control. Sadly, we the people will never know many of the worlds true inner workings. But as good human beings, our bond as brothers is stonger than government, terrorists or our differnces.
There are so many intelligent people on this forum. How about channeling our emotions into a force for good. Lets have a dialog about what can be done to fix this problem. Who knows, maybe we'll come up with something historic.
My thoughts are that we are all equal, and entitled to repect despite different beliefs. I don't think about male, female, white, black, Jew, christian, Islam, athiest etc.. I think real simple... GOOD, BAD! I'm against the reduction of freedom or civil liberties in the name of added security. In my view, the bad guys will always find away around our measures, and we'll be in a perpetual "design a better mouse trap" mode. My thoughts are to get rid of the Bad Guys. How do you do that? I'm not sure, but one measure that I would support is to make it international law that hostile threats of physical harm to persons or groups would be considered criminal acts. Policing would be an issue, but I think it's a crime for anyone to rejoice at any harmful act or loss of life. I certainly wouldn't tolerate any group making any threat against anyone and I think its time we adopt measures to make it less heroic to perform these acts. And taking credit for terrorist acts? Thats already a crime, and we need to start enforcing it by association. Maybe then people would start thinking twice about doing it or bragging about it.
I'm no expert, and I don't have the answers... Anyone else have any ideas?
I've read every post on this subject and must confess my ignorance on the subject of Arab, Isreai and American relations. After the horrible events we (humanity) are facing, I've been reading everything on the subject that I can get my hands on (thank god for the internet). I have found the issue most complex with valid points of contention on all sides (Arab, Isreali and American). I have even learned things our American government may have done in our names that I'm struggling with. While I don't know for sure that there true I'm not so naive to think that they couldn't have happened.
having said that, I can't think of anything that could justify the acts of these animals. Their actions have brought out feelings in all of us that I think are the cause of some of our bickering. I know I'm haveing a hard time containing my anger and I'm ashamed of some of my thoughts. My refuge has been prayer, thought and education. My heart and prayers go out to anyone touched by this tragedy, but especially to the kids who've lost parents. I don't know or even have the strength to look into my kids little eyes and explain these evil acts, let alone a childs whose life will be forever scarred as a result. These kids, of all races and religions, don't know or care about these conflicts and are completely innocent....and they will pay a lifetime of memories and pain for it. As I wretch at these thoughts, I realized that this has been happening all over the world for WAY TOO LONG! We Americans, have been so lucky, and in may ways unlucky, that we have been so insulated from these events for so long. When I have seen similar events in the news, I'm guilty of not giving it enough care! I feel HORRIBLE and USELESS that it took this event to make me see that every life matters. Where was my outrage when 150 were killed in a hi-jacked plane ? Or when 25 were killed by a car bomb? Or when 1 was dragged behind a pick-up truck to his horrible death... and for what, hate? DO these lives count less? I am so sorry for what I am, and for what I failed to be.
I would like eveyone in the world to know just how greatful we Americans are for the outpouring of support we have received. Please know that we have not forgotten that so many of yours have fallen with us and those that hahve gone befor. I ask forgiveness for my ignorance and pledge to do better. I ask all of us to join together towards making things better. Lets not argue over things many of us can't control. Sadly, we the people will never know many of the worlds true inner workings. But as good human beings, our bond as brothers is stonger than government, terrorists or our differnces.
There are so many intelligent people on this forum. How about channeling our emotions into a force for good. Lets have a dialog about what can be done to fix this problem. Who knows, maybe we'll come up with something historic.
My thoughts are that we are all equal, and entitled to repect despite different beliefs. I don't think about male, female, white, black, Jew, christian, Islam, athiest etc.. I think real simple... GOOD, BAD! I'm against the reduction of freedom or civil liberties in the name of added security. In my view, the bad guys will always find away around our measures, and we'll be in a perpetual "design a better mouse trap" mode. My thoughts are to get rid of the Bad Guys. How do you do that? I'm not sure, but one measure that I would support is to make it international law that hostile threats of physical harm to persons or groups would be considered criminal acts. Policing would be an issue, but I think it's a crime for anyone to rejoice at any harmful act or loss of life. I certainly wouldn't tolerate any group making any threat against anyone and I think its time we adopt measures to make it less heroic to perform these acts. And taking credit for terrorist acts? Thats already a crime, and we need to start enforcing it by association. Maybe then people would start thinking twice about doing it or bragging about it.
I'm no expert, and I don't have the answers... Anyone else have any ideas?
10-23-2001, 04:15 AM
#63
Boris,
Still out there? I'm Pissed off!
Well, Bush -I voted for him - and crew have managed to foul things up politically.
The talking heads - pick any news anchor -
have pretty well muddied the waters by vilifing any and all who would aurgue against the governments current trek down the sacred path of the prancing idiots.
The USA will never get recompensed, nor sufficient PAY BACK for the Air Assault on NYC. And anyone with a brain can figure out that the Bio attacks wether initiated by foreign or domestic maniacs were not mailed out under a one a day strategy but bulk mailed from a variety of locations - the ****, probably, has yet to hit the fan -.
The FBI and that miserable Raptor program is probably running full steam. Reno that lovely impartial leader of the justice Dept. never made a determination and after much debate it will end up moot in the courts because its such a fine weapon against crime - so what's a little invasion of privacy to Honest, God fearing, hard working Americans (as long as they have nothing to hide). Even the House and Senate Public Hearings could not get the straight scoop from the FBI/Justice Dept(sic.) The State Dept./Powell has managed to wedge both feet firmly in his mouth while alienating most of the Muslim world . India and Pakistan went at it again after his last misguided road trip. Who promised who...WHAT? We have further destabilized the Pakistani Govt., attacked a soverign nation and have vowed to over throw the sitting Afgan Govt. That Idiot Rumsfield - a Vietnam era throwback -
and Powell have both said we will go into any country at will to stamp out terrorism.
Oops! A village here a hospital there, all accidents. Unavoidable collateral damage. Since we are the good guys, just like Israel
, our actions can in no way be construed as acts of terrorism. The people we/you kill have family and friends who may actually have loved the deceased. See where I'm going?
I noticed Israel using gunships at will to hammer Police Stations on the West Bank.
Got to get rid of those terrorists somehow, eh? And then those dirty bastards shot the head of the tourism industry - for no reason!
Payback Time. I noticed the UPI article listed all the Arabs/Palistinians recently killed by the IDF were listed as DEAD BY GUNFIRE, and not killed by Israeli forces. HEY! Whats in a word anyhow, huh?
Back in the 40's when Israel was not yet a nation I'm sure that the British troops who were murdered by the Jews were condidered overbearing, oppressive, and draconian in their own right. Right now that description applies to the Jewish State. And we are not far behind. I spent a career in the U.S. Army
and I miss it. But, for all of its good intentions, and I'm sure the same can be said of the IDF/AF, our forces are no better than the Governments that use them. Both of our militaries are sworn to defend and obey which makes us little different than the ****'s -you may have read about them- "WE were only following orders". Nasty and depressing when you look in the mirror and the BEAST is staring back at you ain't it?
My cure for the USA's current situation is to pull out of Afganistan/Pakistan. Leave the bounty on the known Bad Guy's. And cut ALL MILITARY and ECONOMIC ties to Israel including MAPS and the ever present cash flow. At least until we can get up the gumtion to put a long term U.N. Peacekeeping Force between the Israeli's and the Palestinians. And I'd throw in a economic package for Palestine while I was at it.
Murder is murder, Boris . It doesn't matter if you, or I, or the Arabs call it DEFENSE.
It's still ****ing murder and it has to stop! If it means Israel or the U.S. will have to bite the bullet the choice is simple, make a choice America or Israel. No more Beruits or WTC's!
John S.
Still out there? I'm Pissed off!
Well, Bush -I voted for him - and crew have managed to foul things up politically.
The talking heads - pick any news anchor -
have pretty well muddied the waters by vilifing any and all who would aurgue against the governments current trek down the sacred path of the prancing idiots.
The USA will never get recompensed, nor sufficient PAY BACK for the Air Assault on NYC. And anyone with a brain can figure out that the Bio attacks wether initiated by foreign or domestic maniacs were not mailed out under a one a day strategy but bulk mailed from a variety of locations - the ****, probably, has yet to hit the fan -.
The FBI and that miserable Raptor program is probably running full steam. Reno that lovely impartial leader of the justice Dept. never made a determination and after much debate it will end up moot in the courts because its such a fine weapon against crime - so what's a little invasion of privacy to Honest, God fearing, hard working Americans (as long as they have nothing to hide). Even the House and Senate Public Hearings could not get the straight scoop from the FBI/Justice Dept(sic.) The State Dept./Powell has managed to wedge both feet firmly in his mouth while alienating most of the Muslim world . India and Pakistan went at it again after his last misguided road trip. Who promised who...WHAT? We have further destabilized the Pakistani Govt., attacked a soverign nation and have vowed to over throw the sitting Afgan Govt. That Idiot Rumsfield - a Vietnam era throwback -
and Powell have both said we will go into any country at will to stamp out terrorism.
Oops! A village here a hospital there, all accidents. Unavoidable collateral damage. Since we are the good guys, just like Israel
, our actions can in no way be construed as acts of terrorism. The people we/you kill have family and friends who may actually have loved the deceased. See where I'm going?
I noticed Israel using gunships at will to hammer Police Stations on the West Bank.
Got to get rid of those terrorists somehow, eh? And then those dirty bastards shot the head of the tourism industry - for no reason!
Payback Time. I noticed the UPI article listed all the Arabs/Palistinians recently killed by the IDF were listed as DEAD BY GUNFIRE, and not killed by Israeli forces. HEY! Whats in a word anyhow, huh?
Back in the 40's when Israel was not yet a nation I'm sure that the British troops who were murdered by the Jews were condidered overbearing, oppressive, and draconian in their own right. Right now that description applies to the Jewish State. And we are not far behind. I spent a career in the U.S. Army
and I miss it. But, for all of its good intentions, and I'm sure the same can be said of the IDF/AF, our forces are no better than the Governments that use them. Both of our militaries are sworn to defend and obey which makes us little different than the ****'s -you may have read about them- "WE were only following orders". Nasty and depressing when you look in the mirror and the BEAST is staring back at you ain't it?
My cure for the USA's current situation is to pull out of Afganistan/Pakistan. Leave the bounty on the known Bad Guy's. And cut ALL MILITARY and ECONOMIC ties to Israel including MAPS and the ever present cash flow. At least until we can get up the gumtion to put a long term U.N. Peacekeeping Force between the Israeli's and the Palestinians. And I'd throw in a economic package for Palestine while I was at it.
Murder is murder, Boris . It doesn't matter if you, or I, or the Arabs call it DEFENSE.
It's still ****ing murder and it has to stop! If it means Israel or the U.S. will have to bite the bullet the choice is simple, make a choice America or Israel. No more Beruits or WTC's!
John S.