VehiGAZ

So I familiarized myself with the fuse & relay panel in my '89 GT this morning by changing out all the old fuses for glow-when-they-blow "Smart Glow" fuses and checking out the relay setup, when I noticed something strange...

The foglight relay (position XIII) is missing, and it's not jumped/bridged either, but my foglights work just fine. (I have double- and triple verified that they work correctly because I replaced the headlight, aux headlight, and foglight bulbs with Sylvania Silverstars and have been checking and aiming them the last couple of nights)

Anyone know why this would be?

Also, I am planning on keeping a spare for a couple of key relays. Beyond the multi-purpose 141.951.253B relay (used in positions IV, VIII, XII, XIV, XX, and XXV), are there any others that you guys would recommend I get a spare for to avoid being left stranded on a dark country road?

Thanks!!

PS - I absolutely LOVE driving this car!

Alan

Someone messed with it?.... dedicated local relays for hiher power? look for non-stock wiring/relays/fuses near the engine jump post.

Try taking out the foglight fuse - do they still work - if yes the above is likely.

Alan

VehiGAZ

Well, the wiring to the jump post looks fairly stock to me, but I have no point of reference. Here's a picture of what the wiring looks like. Does that look like some electrical wiring has been added?

mnotz

Looks pretty much stock, to me at least...then again, there probably are some differences to the OB's like mine...

BTW...nice to have another shark close by! I am actually "right up the street" from you in Branford and work in New Haven ;-) Send me a PM some time, maybe we can grab coffee or so some day if you want to...

Marcus.

davek9

Looks stock to me too

Alan

First look seems stock (BTW nice clean engine bay based oin that little spot - and GTS type intake tubes too?)

Try the fuses - do they disable the foglights?

You do mean foglights and not driving lights right? - on with low beam only

Driving lights = always on with highbeams

Alan

VehiGAZ

Too funny - I was thinking when I posted the picture, "I bet someone is going to notice and mention that my GT has GTS intake tubes..."

Yes, the bay is pretty clean, and it was not recently steamed or anything - when I saw this car, I knew there was no reason in the world not to buy it. I am quite happy with my decision and very pleased that my 18+ month search for a 928 led to such a great car.

I will try pulling fuses to see what happens. (Once more into the breach...) And yes, I definitely mean the foglights - the inner ones that operate by the push-button switch below the headlight rotary switch.

As far as I can tell, they work correctly, as do all the lights. But now that I type this, I realize I don't really know how they should be operating. As I said, the fogs come on when I press the button, but are they supposed to shut off when the the high beams are turned on? I can check that as well - but I kinda-sorta-think that they stay on even when I switch the high beams on. I'll check on that, though.

Thanks guys! I'll let you know what else I figure out after I get a chance to monkey with it tonight.

Alan

In a USA model they should turn off when the high beams go on - in ROW/Euro models they stay on when the highbeams go on. (I think due to DOT's established total forward lighting power limitations...)

It's possible someone wanted the ROW/Euro behaviour and rather than rewiring the foglight relay coil circuit to be like a ROW car maybe found some other way to do it - bypasing the relay. Even if it does switch with the low beams - I'm still thinking this likely is what they did... the other common placement of such relays could be in the fenders below the headlight buckets...?

Do you see any extra wires coming off the bottom of the CE panel
connectors?

Are all 4 of your headlight fuses stock values?: (LH/LL/RH/RL).

If you pull the HL fuses do the fogs still work independantly?

Alan

VehiGAZ

Thanks so much for your input, Alan - your suggestions are excellent and your speculations are insightful - not just speculative. :-)

I checked the operation of the fogs, and the do turn off when the high beams are switched on as they are supposed to. I also checked their operation in the running lights position, and they can be switched on then, too. If I "flash the highs" in this position with the fogs on, the additional headlights come on (since the headlights are retracted), but doing so does not shut off the fogs, which is still consistent with your US model operation theory.

Hmm... quite the mystery why they would operate properly without the friggin' relay installed!

I did not check the fuses, though - I ran out of daylight. But as I mentioned above, I changed them all the other day, and although there were a couple which had higher amperage fuses than they were supposed to, I do not recall that the headlights had higher-than-rated fuses installed.

What is the "CE panel"? The Central Electrical panel? If so, I will check for extra-looking wires when I pull fuses.

Alan

Yes CE panel = Main fuse/relay panel.

Alan

VehiGAZ

I figured it out! The problem: loose screw behind wheel.

My foglight relay is not missing at all - position XIII has the foglight relay installed. The one to the right of it, XIV - starter relay (auto) - is the one that's missing (and rightly so, being a manual transmission GT and all).

I misread the eensy-weensy carets next to the relay sockets when I initially "discovered" the "problem." You see, the top and bottom rows have the carets pointing in opposite directions, even thought the labels are in the same positions relative to the sockets, and I assumed that since the label for socket XIV on the top row indicated the socket to the right, the label for the socket just below it would also indicate the socket to its right. How wrong I was!

Silly newbie - doesn't even know yet that Porsche engineers like to play to play fun little tricks on their customers.

Thanks anyway for the help, everyone!

Alan

Well that makes more sense than a phantom relay anyway!

Umm - maybe I should have questioned that?

Yes its not obvious that the relationship between the label & the relay socket varies - the little arrows are a bit too small to be conclusive - epecially while you are twisted into place and your back hurts. Just like the complete set of fuse number labels the are there but mostly impssible to see let alone read - unless you stand on your head with your feet sticking out the sunroof and read them upside down.

Hans & Fritz probably had a good laugh about that one too!

Alan

VehiGAZ

There are fuse number labels in there!?

The most annoying part of this story came in the retelling of it to my wife last night. About two and a half sentences in, she pipes up, "Oh, you were probably just looking at the socket next to the fog light relay!" Guess who's my new Porsche engineering consultant!

Ok, bye-bye thread. RIP.

dr bob

Maybe we need to make the Iceman relay labels a mandatory investment. I know I will need a set just to get the type big enogh to read...