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Forbes Bashing 928s Unacceptable email Them

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Old 11-12-2002, 08:10 PM
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Thom1
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Angry Forbes Bashing 928s Unacceptable email Them

Hi Sharks:

Here is a letter/email that I sent to Forbes in response to their 928 bashing. I would encourage others to express their disgust too.

Send letters to:
letters@forbes.net

Subject: Fire the liar

Dear Editor at Forbes:

This sort of bashing and false statements are really irresponsible reporting.

See article:
<a href="http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/12/cx_1112vow.html" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/12/cx_1112vow.html</a>

"any original 928 is more of a freight train than a nimble rally car. So this extra long, extra heavy version is mostly for cruising, which makes it just like most modifieds and hot rods: mainly for show, not too much go.

Another concern: 928s have tremendously complicated V-8s that require very knowledgeable mechanics (a rarity) and special parts that sometimes just aren't available. Remember, collector cars like Ferraris drive aftermarket parts production, as do higher-volume collectibles like 911s. But 928s have few fans, which creates zero market for making parts to fix them"

Per the statements listed above:

See this statement: "any original 928 is more of a freight train than a nimble rally car" That statement is false. The 928 is heavy for a Porsche mainly because it has such a big powerful V8 engine. It also has aluminum panels and parts. The suspension is truly sophisticated. The transmission is in the rear to balance the front engine. These factors make this sports car very nimble. It is much easier to handle than most rear engine sports cars. The car handles like a dream come true. There are very few sports cars in existence that can compete with any year model 928 through the curves. The writer obviously has never taken a curve in a 928. In 1987, the S4 set a land speed record for a production car on the salt flats. In our discussion groups, there are 911 owners that really appreciate the 928s they own as well. How could anyone compare such a truly marvelous high performance sports car to a freight train?

See the statement: "Another concern: 928s have tremendously complicated V-8s that require very knowledgeable mechanics (a rarity)" The 928 engines are complex like almost any extremely expensive original sticker price exotic import. (It would have taken about $60,000 in 1986 dollars to drive away a 1986 with a normal set of options.) Much of that technology has made it's way into other water cooled Porsches. Therefore, the dealerships have some crossover knowledge in working on the engines. Just take the car to the dealership. Local dealerships have even referred owners to knowledgeable independent shops when dealership labor costs might be too high. Tell me where to find a less complex Ferrari, or a competent Ferrari mechanic. We have several websites with discussion groups. We can usually diagnose problems over the internet before we ever go see a mechanic. Many owners can use such resources to just fix the cars ourselves.

See the statement: "special parts that sometimes just aren't available." There is a group called the Big Three: 928 Specialists, 928 International and Devek. You can get any 928 part from one of them. Most parts can be at your door next day. There are quite a few Porsche oriented parts houses for new and used parts. See <a href="https://rennlist.com" target="_blank">www.rennlist.com</a> for a list of sponsors. You can find anything you want from a sponsor listed there with minimal research. Many parts suppliers, probably all Big Three, order through the Porsche corporation as authorized vendors. They can have parts fabricated in the Porsche plants. How can the writer of this article possibly justify making such false statements?

See the statement: "But 928s have few fans, which creates zero market for making parts to fix them" The 928 was a relatively low production volume exotic. There are plenty of 928 fans and owners considering the volume produced. All you need to do is enter 928 in your internet search engine. See how many sites you find. See how many fans talk up the car online. Again, look to the list of Rennlist sponsors to find a “slightly larger than zero market” thriving parts industry. How can you keep someone on the payroll that makes so many false statements in one article alone?

Why would you want to be so offensive? It sounds like this guy has never experienced the thrill and incredible satisfaction of driving the high performance - in every respect - 928.


Sincerely,
Thom & The Great Dark Blue, nickname: Tiger
1986.5 928 S3, US Model, 4 Speed Auto
Old 11-12-2002, 09:46 PM
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Drewster67
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Talking

My comments are on the way!
Old 11-13-2002, 08:26 PM
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srv
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I got a response from Forbes today; here's my email first, then their response:

Hello,

Your story regarding the Porsche 928 is so full of fallacies that it makes me question the integrity of your organization.

How could you put out something so irresponsible? None of the 'facts' are even remotely close to reality.

How many other articles have you done the same to?

I am very disappointed.

Sincerely,
Paul

The response:

Please do me the courtesy of telling me what message board this article has made its way on to so I can address ALL of your concerns at once (I am the editor responsible for this section).

Michael Frank
Forbes.com

Well, I'll let him know where we are.
Old 11-13-2002, 08:36 PM
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Drewster67
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Here is the letter I wrote - maybe I could of been a bit more professional .....

If your going to do it - do it right the first time so you won't get letters like mine!.

<a href="http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/12/cx_1112vow.html" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/2002/11/12/cx_1112vow.html</a>


Forbes Editor:

I'm writing in response to an article published regarding the Porsche 928.

And the original 928 was not a light car to begin with. The factory had to use wildly expensive aluminum doors to pare some of the excess pork from their creation. Plus, any original 928 is more of a freight train than a nimble rally car. So this extra long, extra heavy version is mostly for cruising, which makes it just like most modified and hot rods: mainly for show, not too much go.


It's disheartening to read an untrue statement such as the one above. Not too much go - your columnist obviously didn't do their research. Since day one, all 928's are fast. Some faster than others. The 95 GTS - 0-60 5.4 seconds - Top Speed 170mph. It was never meant to be a Rally Car but a Grand Touring Car. Performance with Luxury .


Another concern: 928s have tremendously complicated V-8s that require very knowledgeable mechanics (a rarity) and special parts that sometimes just aren't available. Remember, collector cars like Ferraris drive aftermarket parts production, as do higher-volume collectibles like 911s. But 928s have few fans, which creates zero market for making parts to fix them.

Where in the Hell did you get this slacker?. I own a Euro 928 - I have absolutely NO PROBLEM getting parts here in the States or in Germany.

The 928 engine isn't complicated. As with anything, education is key. You learn and you learn from it. With Websites like Rennlist.com, knowledgeable mechanics are plentiful.

928's have few fans zero market for making parts. Utter Nonsense, Every 928 that runs and drives is owned by someone. That someone is a fan and a car enthusiast. Let me give you a kind word of advice. When you publish articles regarding unfamiliar topics - Please do your research. It makes you look bad plus, It ruins your credibility. I know from now on, I will second guess everything that I read in your publication. If you publish BS regarding 928's, what else is false?.

Expect more mail from angry 928 owners.

Was I too rough on them?????"?
Old 11-13-2002, 08:40 PM
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Micah
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God, I love 928 guys and gals I'm already feeling sorry for Forbes.

You guys rock. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Micah
Old 11-14-2002, 12:06 PM
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mfrank
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Okay, time for everyone here to slaughter me... I'm the unlucky Forbes editor who ok'd this story.... As I've told a few of you already, we get this content from a third party... It's no excuse, I realize, but it is an explanation. The stuff I write I research myself. Doesn't always mean I get it right, it just means I'll stand behind my mistakes and take my lumps. Unfortunately in this case I have to take the lumps even though I don't necessarily agree with the logic of the source/author. I personally happen to be a fan of "unorthodox" cars -- I've owned and do own several (although as a car critic I cannot tell you what I drive -- that's like the wine writer telling you that he really likes the boxed stuff when he recommends the $50 Bordeaux!).

Where does that leave us? Me, still cooking on the caldron, and you folks stirring the broth I suppose.

Point is, we'll try harder and as an editor I'll ask more questions in the future. Also, if there's another 928 coming (there darn well may be given the Cayenne's motor/config.) I'll be sure to let you know what I find out.... Ah, which has me wondering, what do 928 owners think of the Cayenne?
Old 11-14-2002, 01:34 PM
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Mfrank -

Well, it's good to see your willing to face the firing line and, at least from me, apology accepted. (if it was an apology )

We shark owners are proud of our cars and it was disheartning to find such slander - I will say this, you have just stumbled upon the Best thing on the Web. Here, there are countless number of ladies and Gentlemen that would be more than happy to offer their insight on their vehicle of choice.

Bookmark this site so you can use it for your next story, and If you do use us for a source - you bet your classic car, you'll get it right the first time -

Kudos!
Old 11-14-2002, 01:40 PM
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Drewster67
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PS - In regards to Cayenne - Use the search link, there's a whole lot of good stuff out there. I personally like the Cayenne - Especially the Turbo S - If it had wings, it would fly.

My two favorite prototypes -

The 928 and the Carrera GT - Man Oh Man ...The GT.
Old 11-14-2002, 02:15 PM
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Wow, another episode of the reality series: "When 928 Owners Attack!"

mfrank may not be aware of the long-running feud 928 owners have been having with Sports Car Market.

<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/dbise/scm928article.jpg" target="_blank">SCM Article</a>

<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/dbise/scm928article2.jpg" target="_blank">Another SCM Article</a>

<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/dbise/morescm928stuff.JPG" target="_blank">More SCM Stuff</a>

I'm just worried that if SCM gets wind of this latest incident, they're going to tweak the noses of 928 owners even harder in their next issue. And you know we just can't resist that kind of bait.

Dan
Pasadena, CA
'83 928S Auto, Black
Old 11-14-2002, 02:45 PM
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Bernie
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Mfrank,

Now you have a story worthy of publication. A two or so paragraph of 928 bashing has opened up a big 'ol can of worms from a, hidden from view, secret community.
We love these cars - dearly!!
I have actually worked on my 928 more than I have worked on any car in my life and its only because this community of owners is there to back me up at every turn. I return that favour whenever possible.
Things are changing with the growth of the internet. No longer do I have to watch my car disappear into someones shop only to pick it up 3 days later with a 1000.00 + repair bill. No longer do I need to refer to something as a "thingamabob". No longer do I have to fear my car and the problems it may have along the way. The 928 community of owners is like a big, warm, fuzzy blanket of comfort for people like me who didn't rebuild engines when he was 8 years old. I grew up not knowing much about car mechanics at all. I am now unafraid to tear into just about anything on my car.
It is only because of the Porsche 928 that I have started this journey into knowledge. Complicated? nope. Complicated is for the unknowing. Remember that knowledge is power.
My 1985 928S has given me nothing but pleasure since the day I bought it. Is it a Viper? no, but it is a truely unique machine with timeless styling. Hell, I still see cars being manufactured today that obviously took styling cues from the 928.
The good men at Porsche must have been stumped and bewildered that people did not accept this car. (with german accent) - vat do you mean you dont like it? It looks beautivul, it is comvortable, it goos 170mph????? Arrr yu people crazy? I bilt dis car, I givup, I'm going to built SUV's instead.
People can say whatever they like about the 928. I feel proud about owning a car that I rarely ever see another of.

BTW - Don't you feel ripped off by the 3rd party writer now? I mean you pay these people to provide accurate articles so as to not inflame readers right?
Now that this has happened, why not have one of our members write you a "real" article on the 928? From a person that lives and breathes these cars. Now that is an article I would buy your magazine for......
Old 11-14-2002, 04:00 PM
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I wrote him a short complaint, limiting my comments to "why so negative on an article on a car that was not a production model??" Specious premis.

Mr. Frank: You should monitor the writer of that article closely. The article just doesn't merit publication and that is your department is it not? RE: SUV -- I don't subscribe to the SUV marketing in the first place: a truck ride w/o the advantages of a truck. So I obviously have no need of the a Porsche SUV: it is a diversion from Porsche's market and a waste of their time.

Additional note to all: Forbes is an investment magazine. Is this representative of the research that goes into their investment articles? Hmmmm, maybe those of us who buy stocks should consider whether Forbes investment advise is to be followed. Of course they are probably no worse in this area than the others who have shown conflicts of interest. Buyer beware.
Old 11-14-2002, 05:56 PM
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M758
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[quote]Originally posted by mfrank:
<strong>Ah, which has me wondering, what do 928 owners think of the Cayenne?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Myself, a 944 and 944 Turbo owner and racer, along with my family, 944, 944 Turbo and 928 owners, are not in support of the Cayenne. We as many other do not think that an SUV is in the intersts of Porsche and fear that company is loosing it focus on doing what it has done for over 50 years. Produce great sports car and race cars. If you wish to understand better the pulse of the Porsche enthusisat on the Cayenne please visit the Cayenne Specific Forum on the Rennlist. There you will find many respones (mostly, but not all) critical of the Cayenne in a number of ways including sytling and basic concept.

The interesting thing is that the 928 owners are in general less irritated by the Cayenne. I believe to because they see it it an opprotunity. They look at the Cayenne's 450hp twin turbo V8 and wonder... "Will that fit in my 928!"
Old 11-14-2002, 06:35 PM
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Bernie
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Careful,

We could be on the verge of doing to the Cayenne what was done to the 928 and all waterpumpers for that matter. Let's not turn our noses up at a Porsche product until it has had its chance to prove what it can or can't do.
I haven't driven one yet or even sat in one for that matter but I am prepared to give it its due credit until it proves otherwise. Something that the rear engine airpumpers of the Porsche community never did for the 928.

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Old 11-14-2002, 06:52 PM
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If I had the kind of income needed to be a Cayenne owner, my deposit would have been sent already.
Old 11-14-2002, 08:18 PM
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mfrank

As I read your article I find that a lot of the effort is centered on the 4 door 928. An odd version it was thus not finding itself in the main production line up. I will agree that the market is small for 928’s when you compare it to say a Ford Mustang and its parts. This is natural when you consider that the entire production of the 928 turned out around 52,000 cars. I believe that the Mustang line doubles that number in any given year. Yes parts are limited, I find it hard to go Auto Zone and pick up a rebuild kit as if it was an American car. I can however call one of our big three suppliers and have the part sent next day air.

Everyone who has children will tell you that they have the best kids to be found. Owning a 928 is no different; we all take pride in our machines. You may ask why, and when you look deep into the precision that Porsche placed in this line of cars you will see. Building a car that is so evenly balanced is extremely hard to find, definitely not like the freight train. Performance, in its days it couldn’t be touched in its class, much like the Cayenne to other SUVs. When you place a 928 against the majority of US sport cars today, only the limited versions such as the Z06 may have the advantage. This leaves 20 year old cars out running cars of today, maybe instead of a freight train we should have been referred to as the European bullet train.

I own both a 911SC and 928S. To the people that understand the difference, they go crazy over the 911. To the ones that know the line up, the 928 will stand tall. I have had a lot of 911 owners tell me that they would like to own a Shark.

Ell
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