$22,816 to install a SC!!!!! That's fub duck. I'd have shot someone already. It's
like pi**ing away another GTS.

 

I guess that for the $30,000 it will cost to get this car back on the road, I would have chosen a stroker from Devek.

Seems to me it would be done by now, for less money and have just as much power <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

A $22k bill and a non working GTS would have me pretty well PO'ed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

 

That is a breathtaking amount to have spent for the apparent outcome thus far.

Considering the racket the previous thread concering these cars brought up, is it me or is that the deafening roar of silence? Well. Maybe a cricket or two.

My new name for some of Socal. France.

 

Bernie...

"Suffice to say that your car is not blown. That I know for sure."

Do you know it for sure because the engine still runs?

Just because the rods aren't sticking out thru the side of the block doesn't mean that an engine isn't blown.

An engine can continue to run despite a rod knocking; however, it is still considered 'blown', and must be either rebuilt or replaced before the inevitable happens.

Likewise, an engine with cracked ring lands can continue to run as long as the piston(s) don't start chunking and fouling the engine. The affected cylinder(s) can be identified by a leak-down test as you yourself described:

"..Discovered on a post blower install leakdown test."

Keep in mind that Marc already clarified for the board that it's common for GTS's to experience the 'excessive' oil consumption you refer to, and that

"..the oil consumption has nothing to do with the ring seal and leakdown."

Also it's important to note,

"we service Joes GTS, and it ran very strong...maybe one of the strongest GTS autos ever".

Sounds like a healthy engine to me, yet your own words state the problem was identified '..post blower install'.

So the question is, since the engine was certified healthy before, and projekt928-certified 'junk' now, it's only logical to conclude that something catastrophic occurred which requires a rebuild. Why else rebuild an engine that was once regarded as 'very strong'?

Kaz…

I’ve noticed ‘the deafening roar of silence’ too.

It appears that those members alarmed by Projekt928 in ‘Spooled Up GTS’ no longer visit here. What a shame as all they were trying to do was avert another disaster in the 928 community. It seems that all the thanks they got was nothing but grief from the Projekt928 believers.

 

To be fair, the 22k number is not just to install a supercharger. It included the f-a-s-t Online kit, intercooler, head port & polish, T-trim Vortech, stainless plumbing, fuel management system, cat by-pass, gaskets, oil cooler, heat exchanger, fans, motor mounts, rear brakes, custom gauges and housings, dyno and dial-in. This agreement was to be delivered on 6/15, a 10 week job.

The car was driven end of June, but had a bad valvestem seal and was torn apart to fix. I was then told the f-a-s-t Online brackets were flexing, so Eric re-designed them. I still don't understand this as I get conflicting stories.

The end of September, I was told the car ran lean. I was told the new fuel pump was only getting 9.9 volts, so it was wired directly to the battery. Then I was told the automatic transmission slipped badly on full boost, finally solved by removing the vacuum.

October was spent trying to solve excessive valve cover vapors after I was told the blower ran 11.6 psi at 6500 rpm. Oil separator system designed but didn't solve the issue as the crankcase was being pressurized too much (3 psi at 3000 rpm). I'm then advised new rings are needed and might as well do bearings.

November I'm told the bearings are installed.

December I'm told it needs new pistons as 2 of them have broken rings and have scored the cylinder walls.

This last Sunday, I'm told the block is due back this week.

I have over 300 emails between Eric and myself in the last 9+ months. I can only trust what I've been told. Somehow, everyone thinks Eric is doing this on his own dime, including Eric. On the latest tear-down and piston job, I agreed to pay another $3500 plus piston and boring costs, but the job was to be completed before Christmas. This would then bring the project to around $28k. Eric says there are 10 928's in his shop now and that he has hired and trained more employees to get all the work done.

Almost every week since April, I have received project status reports that just don't add up and completion commitments that have slipped. I just can't wait any longer, so I've instructed Eric to prepare my car for pickup as soon as the block is returned.

All I ever wanted was a faster street GTS, with a turnkey supercharger installation, not an R & D project. I do not question Eric's desire to do a quality job, just his management style. I've been more than nice and patient here. Judge for yourself.

 

Isn't it incredible that history has shown what idiots we all were, for thinking that we could fly or breath under water or walk on the moon to name a few...or maybe just the fact that we could freeze food in a desert enviroment(on a smaller scale)...well,you get the idea.

Can you imagine the flack these innovators or inventors took? Publically persecuted and stripped of any respect. What do you think kept these experimental minds from falling prey to the insults and embarressment by the moral majority?

One big question I have is, why isn't this guy locked behind bars? If it is public knowledge that he is making false claims and parting 1000's of dollars from 928 owners, shouldn't the law be contacted?...maybe a senator or even a govenor!

 

Unfortunately this is NOT an uncommon occurance in the P-car world. There seem to be a number of real enthusiasts that have tried to make a go in the P-car parts and service arena. Many ARE good mechanics and good people. They just have trouble translating their goodwill into a business format. I used to be a 951 owner. Problems with that lines suppliers are rampant.

I think Eric sounds like a decent chap. The evidence on this forum is that he is in way over his head on SC installations.

As I posted on the "S4 supercharger" thread, I would be equally as leery of the latest SC supplier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

 

Maybe it's just me, but if a friend of the shop owner that's doing the work on my car publicly says:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Bernie:
<strong>I drove it. It hauls ***.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">and then the engine is taken apart, and I got a bill for $28K which includes new rings, pistons, and cylinder boring among other things, I wouldn't be particularly happy about it. I try to be a nice guy, but I'm not nice enough to want to fund $28K joy rides for friends of the shop owner.

 

Godspeed.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by marc@DEVEK:
<strong>Here are some facts:

1 The oil consumption issue is COMMON to all GTS's.
2 the oil consumption has nothing to do with the ring seal and leakdown...see other rennlist GTS oil consumption topic
3 we service Joes GTS, and it ran very strong...maybe one of the strongest GTS autos ever
4 The customer was sold a turnkey package, not a development program...this is a key point, the customer must be told the difference! Joe expected a turnkey program.
5 Bernie, instead of telling us how good it all is...maybe you should talk to the customer and tell him how good it is all working out...I am sure that it would really help the situation.

Regards,
Marc</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hello All, I finally found my password for the board. I'm mostly on Rennlist 928 (I have a hard time keeping up with that) and don't get to the discussion boards very often, but this one really got my curiosity piqued.

I've been following this thread both on list and "behind the scenes" for sometime now with the same warped interest one has driving by a massive wreck on the expressway.

I think Marc has hit the nail on the head here. If you're going to sell yourself as "turnkey" service for a fixed price, that's what the bottom line should be. Seems to me anyone WHO KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING would check the stock motor before attempting any supercharger work. If the leakdown/comp test was bad, then you tell the customer it won't work. I read though that the stock motor wasn't a problem. Therefore, something was screwed up in the installation.

I've ridden in and seen Tim Murphy's SC'ed S4 on the dyno. It's a monster. Tim however did pretty much of an overhaul of the whole FAST kit. Made his own brackets, intercooler etc. If someone tried to put a stock FAST kit on a 928 I SERIOUSLY DOUBT they'd have a whole lot of luck as "weekend project" as I've seen it advertised. From the stories I hear from people that have tried, it needs substantial improvement...which FAST if trying to do.

Bottom line...IMO the amount of time and money Joe has spent on this supercharger install is an absolute crime IMO. Seems to me he has been more than patient and more than financially supportive. He's basically financed a learning curve. At the end of the day, if the vendor had any sense of concious / morality, he would say... I screwed it up, here's your money back.

Seems like accountability(with a few exceptions) is lost in business these days.

 

Hey Z, Brent, SRV, just a sound check here. I was perusing the five pages of thread when everyone was discussing the black GTS. All those endorsements and only Bernie showed up to hold the line this time however briefly.

Not.
One.
Other.
Post.

on this thread out of all those characters. Of course it's non of our business and most of "them" were only getting oil changes and the like but

still.

There were some looong posts written in defense.

Now.
Nuthin.

Not even on that other "huge" board with 150 members....five regular posters now.

France surrenders.

 

Kaz,

The reason I decided to not post anymore on this topic is because the owner of the car Joe Dyer has spoken on his own behalf. I am not going to get into a debate over how Joe feels he has been treated during this process.
And to be honest, I cannot disagree with a lot of the posts written on this topic.
I would stand in anyone's defense if I completely felt they were in the right. Joe's situation has clouded my judgement on this topic so I best not inflame the situation any further.
Anyone who knows me knows that I am a pretty staright shooter. I am not involved in this community for my own monetary gain. I am involved because of my love of the automobile.
Eric has always been very helpful to me since I have met him and he has given me no "personal" reason to display distrust. It is now obvious and clear to me that others do have a reason to have distrust.
My burst onto this thread was to debate the statement that the white GTS was blown on a dyno run, which is absolutely false. I cannot help but feel that some people on this board are showing their allegiance to other custom power installers and are using this forum to promote their products, even at the expense of other people. I get a kick out of parts suppliers with only 114 posts to their credit that only show up on this list to promote a new product or to bash on another individual in hopes of gaining a little more market share. I applaud other suppliers who don't make it their point to promote anything or to jump into these discussions but merely show up to offer their most valuable technical assistance.
Take it for what its worth but I have made the point I was trying to make and I also know when to shut up when I think that I may be in the wrong.

I will continue to promote my own DIY site. You know, a site that offers up free information for anyone who wants to use it. Just like many other valuable 928 owners have done.

BTW - I don't need anyone to stand behind me when I jump into a situation. I was raised to take care of myself.

France may have surrendered but the British are still hangin' around - if you get my drift...???

 

After have followed this thread now since it's conception...

Joe - you have my personal gratitude for coming forward and posting your experience...nothing beats talking to the Owner instead of the Horse.

I'm truly regretful that you have had to endure this experience - but eternally grateful that you chose to share it - many thanks.

As mentioned in previosu threads - I have been in contact with others that have been sucessful in the installation of the Spuercharger - and hope that others will contact me off list that I haven't spoken with if they should choose to share their experiences. I would encourage those sam efolks to share with the rest of the community so that we can all be informed - after all, this is what the forum is for (besides a great place to waste time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> )

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

 

Bernie...I have 114 posts, so..."that must be me"!

Come on man, give me a break will ya?

You are a straight shooter, and so am I. So I know that you will take this constructively and we will continue to have a good relationship.

I am a 928 owner first and foremost...and folks that grossly over promote their products - and those that support them - to the point of destroying customers 928 deserve my comments and opinions.

If this was a first for the person in question, then I would just shut my mouth, cause we all make mistakes and are not perfect, but this is not their first time.

We care about peoples 928s and what happens to them!

Remember, I lost two engines due to those "928 experts" selling garbage. If it wasn't for Bob DeVore, Lucky Ekman and our efforts and investments, where would the market be now? No power benchmarks, no focus on dyno verification, no reliability testing, no stroker kits, no header and exhasut kits, no 5.45, 6.0 and 6.5l strokers, no big wheels or big brake kits or 200 mph 928's..and $700 used armrests. Want proof...look at a 928 catalog from 1994, (other 928 specific suppliers were in business for over 6 years at that point) and show me what there was from a performance product standpoint ..."nothing" ..DEVEK went full time in 1995....why not give some credit where it is due?

Hey, worse yet, I almost fell for the RSC (..do you know who they are???..) program in 94, names are different, but the people are the same, only in a different decade. Do you know who ran that operation? One Guess. One person that I met, lost over $100K to RSC. He paid for a super car, 600 hp 928, and got his stock GT back with stock engine and some very poor bodywork!

Valuable assistance ....let me see, is that like posting a supportive statement regarding the man in question to the Rennlist, knowing full well the history of that persone previous endeveours?..is that what you consider making a supplier valuable?...not informing folks about potential fraud? how about trying to save you from making a big mistake, as I have to those that have asked (and sometime to those who have not asked , or stop a 928 owner from getting backended...is that of value to you? Based on your comments...Guess not.

I should have just have stopped at 110 posts and then I could be in the ranks of the valuable suppliers

Like I said, give me a break.

Lets have a good year and try to keep each out of trouble...now that is a resolution we can stand behind!

Regards,
Marc
DEVEK

 

"Valuable assistance ....let me see, is that like posting a supportive statement regarding the man in question to the Rennlist, knowing full well the history of that persone previous endeveours?..is that what you consider making a supplier valuable?...not informing folks about potential fraud? how about trying to save you from making a big mistake, as I have to those that have asked (and sometime to those who have not asked , or stop a 928 owner from getting backended...is that of value to you? Based on your comments...Guess not."

That's all I'm talking about right there. That is the fundamental problem I and not a few others had with this whole business. Never was about supercharing as most folks weren't contemplating it. I just thought at the very least all those good buddies of his could put in another word. Guess not indeed.

I in good faith once recommended a friend to a shop that over time ended up costing him an excessive amount of money. When I realized that I'd made a mistake and was in fact having small(in comparison) problems of my own with the same person I spoke up. I apologized to my friend and took my own business from the shop as well. If someone were to ask, and people have, I speak up. That my experiences were for the most part ok didn't mean I wasn't aware of the horrific problems others were and apparently still are having. Only reason my problems weren't worse was I had a solid car and wasn't doing anything besides minor maintenance.

Anyway make sure you really reread through all those threads and realize who'll shoot you straight and who slinks off.