GRGGOODSPEED

Has any one used a OCTANE 104 booster,
and has felt a difference? <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

BC

I have not used any "boosters" per say, but I have recently started to add toluene (Toloul) to my gas in pretty good quantities, and it DOES make a difference (from the regular 91 octane).

The car usually, between 3-4k, seem to hunt for a mixture or timing advance number. I really do not know. But you CAN feel it. Now, with the toluene, there is no feeling of "hutning" just a clean rev. There is a dyno day this weekend, and I will see if it does anyhthing to the power. Its not reallyabout that though, as the reving and "cleanliness" of the feeling of the engine seems better.

Could be the A$$-o-meter talking to the wallet-o-meter though. Never know.

John Veninger

Brendan,
It would be cool if you could do a few runs with plain old 93 octane and then add the toluene for a few more pulls to see the results.

Randy V

Greg, please use only one Board user account.

Thank you.

goodspeed

Sorry,
One is from the office.
I will try to remove one.

Thanks

goodspeed

By the way,
What is TOLUENE?

Randy V

It's one of the primary ingredients burned in top-fuel dragsters (nitro):

TOLUENE
CASNO: 108-88-3
RELATED CHEMICAL: SEE ALSO TOLUENE (TECHNICAL), NTP 11617-L

RN= CAS Registry Number: 121-14-2 Molecular Formula: C7H6N2O4
MW= Molecular Weight: 182.15
/SY,SY=,/NA,NA= Synonyms: Benzene, 1-methyl-2,4-dinitro- ; 2,4-Dinitrotoluene ;
Dinitrotoluene (OSHA) ; 2,4-Dinitrotoluol ; DNT ; 2,4-DNT ;
1-Methyl-2,4-dinitrobenzene ; 4-Methyl-1,3-dinitrobenzene ; NCI-C01865
; RCRA waste number U105
CL= Compound Class: Tumorigen; Mutagen; Reproductive Effector; Primary Irritant
LN= Wiswesser Line Notation: WNR B1 ENW
RD= Record Date: 199707

FORMULA: C7 H8
SYNONYMS/COMMON NAMES
METHYLBENZENE (9CI)
KNOWN USES:
CHEMICAL INTERMEDIATE; SOLVENT; DENATURANT
CHEMICAL HEALTH AND SAFETY INFORMATION:
SHORT-TERM TOXICITY (definition)
13 WEEK (Inhalation) (C07272B), COMPLETED
RATS:FISCHER 344; MICE:B6C3F1
DOSE: GAV C07272A) 0,312, 625,1250,2500,5000 MG/KG; INHAL:0,100, 625,1250,2500,3000 PPM/10 PER GROUP
13-WEEK (Gavage) (C07272C), COMPLETED
RATS:FISCHER 344; MICE:B6C3F1
DOSE: 0,312,5000 MG/KG/10 PER GROUP
LONG-TERM CARCINOGENICITY (definition)
15 MO/2 YR (Inhalation) (C07272B)
TR-371 (NTIS # PB90-256371) (PEER REVIEW 03/89)
RATS:FISCHER 344; MICE:B6C3F1
CARCINOGENESIS RESULTS (see RESULTS definitions)
MALE RATS = NO EVIDENCE
FEMALE RATS = NO EVIDENCE
MALE MICE = NO EVIDENCE
FEMALE MICE = NO EVIDENCE
DOSE: R: 0,600,1200, M: 0,120,600,1200 PPM/60 PER GROUP
SPECIAL STUDIES (definition)
CHEMICAL DISPOSITION (Gavage) (S0615)
MICE:B6C3F1; RATS:FISCHER 344
REPORT
METABOLISM (S0714)
HUMAN; RATS:FISCHER 344
PUBLICATION CHAPMAN, D.E., MOORE, T.J. MICHENEER, S.R., & POWIS, G, METABOLISM AND COVALENT BINDING OF[14C] TOLUENE BY HUMAN AND RAT LIVER MICROSOMAL FRACTIONS AND LIVER SLICES, DRUG METABOLISM & DISTRIBUTION VOL 18 #6 929-936, 1990
GENETIC TOXICOLOGY (definition)
IN VITRO CYTOGENETICS
NEGATIVE (CHROMOSOME ABERRATIONS)
NEGATIVE (SISTER CHROMATID EXCHANGES)
MOUSE LYMPHOMA
INCONCLUSIVE
SALMONELLA
NEGATIVE
ORGAN SYSTEMS TOXICITY (definition)
NEUROTOXICOLOGY ASSESSMENT (Inhalation) (NTA94013), COMPLETED
MALE RATS
Citation: Animal Neurobehavioral Test Battery in NTP Assessment In: Advances in Neurobehavioral Toxicology: Applications in Environmental & Occupational Health (Barry L. Johnson, ED.), Lewis Publishers, Inc. pp. 403-418 (1990).

goodspeed

WHERE TO GET IT?
Thanks

Normy

Hey- how safe is toluene for O2 sensors and catalytic converters?

Isn't toluene what makes model airplane glue so aromatic?

Normy~

'85 S2

dr bob

I have used the 104+ Octane Booster, in conjunction with the Autothority chipset in my '89 S4. It reduced or eliminated some hot-weather pinging under heavy load, low to mid RPM's, with the AC on, slow speed. It helped enough that I keep a bottle in the tool compartment for use on hot days.

Toluene, if you can find it, is an effective octane booster, but...

--It is fat soluble, and goes pretty quickly through the skin and blood to the brain. As another pointed out, it's the stuff that the glue sniffers sniffed, with resultant brain damage brain damage brain damage.

--It takes a lot.

--Actually reduces performance if your car doesn't need the anti-knock protection.


Use it wisely and carefully, my friend!

BC

Yes. Its a nasty thing, really. Like I said. I only use it because I know my car used to run better when I was using 93 octane in Chi-Town. Now with the Cali 91, its a bit flat sometimes. Obviously only feeling is the difference, and probably not much actual HP, but there is a difference.

I use Latex gloves when I work with this stuff, and make sure that I am in the open, with the wind blowing by to make sure no vapors are concentrated around me. Even then, I still feel tha the vapor concentration is too much, and I am trying to find a safer way to deposit it into my tank.

I buy it at "Vista Paint" which is a painting supply company in San Diego. They sell it in 1 and 5 gallon cans. The 1 gallon is just a waste and too hard to work with so I just put 5 gallons in at once on a full tank. I bought a pump from Walmart that is hand operated, but I think the toluene ate it. That makes me worry about the fuel seals in the car, and the plastic fuel tank. Although, the car is made for alot of different chemicals, and MTBE is way more nasty than toluene from what I understand.

I think it is about 114 R+M/2 octane? So if you mix it with 91, you have to do the math to figure out the octane. The car, stock, will not be able to use much more than 91 octane since that is what ison the gas door, but since that is MINIMUM, I think it may be able to advance the timing if you feed it somewhere in the area of 94-95 octance.

What made me try it?

<a href="http://home.kscable.com/ssutton/miata/engine/toluene.html" target="_blank">http://home.kscable.com/ssutton/miata/engine/toluene.html</a>

I really need to find a sealable way to pump it info the tank. Once I find that, it will be much safer. But for now, the tanks you buy actually smell like it before you even open them.

BC

John. I have an old run of 263/291 from Chicago, and that is 93 octane. In Cali, we only have 91 octane (yes, it sucks).

I will only be able to possibly squeeze in maybe 2 runs this weekend, and it will have to back to back. I am going to parking the car for a bit while I work on the interior and a major chip-filling episode on the paint. I wanted to empty the tank out by then, so I want to run this tank of 91+ 5gal toluene dry... So if it was full, at 21 gallons, then 5 gals was T, and 16 was 91 octane, that is about 25% t. Any body know math?

John Struthers

Greg,
You should note an immediate improvement.
There are two different bottles of '104'. One says it's safe to use with the O2 sensor the other one is suspiciously lacking that statement, the latter one while proclaiming to raise the Octane level even higher than the first one also
note that it is to be used off road only(?).
Toulene should be found at most automotive finish suppliers. Harder to find than it used to be.
We get it at work in 5 gallon cans...... innocent whistling at this point....
This is one of the true AROMATICS, more potent than the Alipthatic Naptha family, but probably less volatile than Methyl Ethyl Ketone and it's little brother Methyl Ethyl Isobutal Ketone.
ALL of the AROMATICS have ridiculously low FLASH POINTS, and will adhere to the hemoglobin in your red blood cells very quickly. You should use overpressure breathing apparatus, face shield, and commercial chemical resistant gloves - not Platex - when using these chemicals. Be real careful with this stuff, it flashes off incredibly fast, like ether, and is not healthy to be around for any length of time.
It is, however, a real go fast juice.

Mongo

I live in Cali with this S4 and all and 91 is a bitch to our poor V8s <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> Would a blend of trick fuel and 91 be good for the injectors and cat and O2 still? If so I can get a barrel for only 50 bucks!

GoRideSno

Dr Bob,

1) What kind of Dr are you?

2) What will Brakeclean do to the human body?

<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />