Seth W

Has anyone ever owned both of these cars?? The only good info comparing them I can find is from a "Takes on the Competition" article from 88 in which the Lotus practically overheats on the track. I'm looking for a comparison between the late 4 cylinder cars (the S4 and S4S--interesting how the names are similar, eh?--which sported 264 and 300hp respectively) and the twin turbo V8 which has 350hp and 295lbs of torque. GM owned Lotus in the mid 1990s and things were relatively sorted out then. I don't know about now though.

I do realize that the Lotus is a pure sports car, but I am driving a 5spd sport suspension RMB 928, so its not THAT far off. I've got that "itch" again and I'm thinking about another car . .

*looks over shoulder for wife*

The Lotus depreciates just as nicely as ours do and that twin turbo v8 hmmm. It can't be any more work to take care of, could it?? Oh, and that license plate, I can see it now 007 CAR, BONDCAR, SPYLUV, BOND J,

All opinions and rants welcome. For those interested in learning about these beauties, search for the Lotus Esprit Fact File, the "Phil Tong" site of Lotus Esprits (I guess every make has one, right?).

Perhaps my car will be up for bids at Devek Days?????

DougM

Blindingly fast and great looking, but that is about it. Very little practicality compared to the 928. It is also on my short list of cars to own some day. I've driven a '97 V8 and a '91. Fast and fun but a lot of squeaks (fiberglass) that annoy me. Even in the 4000 mile V8. Lotus builds great engines with a cool body design, but everything else is leftover parts bin. Look at the tail lights on s4's and the V8's, "toyota" is clearly stamped.

LastV8

The build quality isn't there but the handling on them is phenominal. There'll be lots of squeeks and rattles and it's quite claustrophobic inside. Speaking of the 4 cylinder turbo versions, I ran with one down to San Diego a few years back and in a straight line WOT, was able to pull on him every time. This surprised me as I had two passengers and luggage in the car and he was alone.

Having said all that, I wouldn't mind owning the V8 twin turbo version. Fast is fast and at the very least you won't see one every where you look.

John Struthers

A 95/96/97 -not sure when they 1st produced
the 8-T - V8 Turbo should pretty well flog a good running 928 of virtually any year. By that I mean from bottom to top of the 928 mph range. Weight being a consideration I would go with the Lotus for handling, too.
Then again a barbarian teenager Q45 lead sled driver would beat my Weissach 0-60, give me a run for the money up to 100mph, and the 1/4 mile. God forbid I run into an aggresive Saab driver.
I want a healthy 86 1/2.
Please send donations to:
John S. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

John V

Seth,

I'm with you on the "itch"... I like my shark but after 11 years and seeing the advances in everyone elses horsepower dept., shes starting to feel like an elegant old lady on a high school track team.

I have considered the Lotus, v8 only... not interested in the 4. They can be had at fair prices. I worry about the build quality, durability and maintenance costs. The other 2 that look intersting and are in the good bang for the buck catagory are the Acura NSX and the C5 Corvette.

Ever consider anything else?

Seth W

I considered the NSX, like you, b/c of the bang for the buck quotient and the superior reliability of the engine. I can't get over the styling though. I've also considered a Viper. The are about 45-50 for a nice used one. Handling, interior etc. all bad. Goes FAST. Corvette is the obvious except for I just can't live with owning a Corvette, don't like the look. I've also been thinking about the M coupe. The ONLY drawback with that rocket is the styling, which you either love or hate. I love it, but there are to many on the road. You can DINAN upgrade that car too and make it even faster. Oh, and other than the obvious 993 choices (to slow) is the late 80's testarossa which is slightly out of the price range (about 65) but MAN are those fast and can they perform. You also don't see yourself coming and going in those.

I'm fairly confident that a 98 (new interior on the lotus in 98) Esprit would be fairly reliable. I mean, look, even a Hyundai, Kia etc. are all fairly reliable these days--things have come so far.

Now, how can I justify this purchase to the S.O?? <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

John V

I agree that the M3 is quite a package. I love the look also but its just too practical... not enough sex appeal for the price. A phenominal daily driver but not a toy.

NSX. I agree the styling looks bland on paper or even stock but, when you get next to one that has upgraded wheels and tires, the car just comes alive. I find the looks to be better than the Lotus or the Vette. Respectable performance and top of class for reliabilty and ease of ownership.

Vette. I have several freinds with C4's and you couldn't pay me to trade. 4-5 year olds feel less solid than my 23 year old shark. I haven't driven a C5 yet... maybe this weekend. I don't like the pre 2000 wheels but otherwise, I like the looks, even if they are VERY common.

Lotus. Maybe the newer ones are relaible but I haven't seen any with mid to high miles. All the ones I've seen are garage queens. And, the newer ones still have alot of short term depreciation to worry about.

Ferrari - Testarosa. Considered it. I've seen them as low as 35k! Spoke to a couple owners and if you think the 928 is expensive to own, try one of these. V12 music but hardtop only... Nah. I'd love a 355 but thats just out of my league. 328gtsi - sweet looks, old, underpowered and still expensive.

Viper- I don't know why, but I'm just not into them. Don't get me wrong, I don't question the performance or sex appeal, but I just can't picture owning one.

993- I agree, early 90's are sub 300Hp. And, I don't think the looks hold candle to the late 80's 930. Thats another candidate.

S.O. ?? <img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" /> That problem is much easier to deal with when the toys in the garage and available for therapy. Anyway, it's fun to dream.

Seth W

John:

You probably already know this, but Comptech has a bunch of upgrades for the NSX including, from what I hear, a reliable supercharger. If the looks work, then out of all of those cars its by far the easiest to purchase and own. God, I wish the Lotus was even close to the reputation for build quality.

abduln

The old Lotus 4 cyl cars did run extremely hot, not the case with the v8 iteration. Yes the Lotus does handle more nicely, and feels good because it is a much smaller car. However the 928 is a GT and there for has more room and comfort, and much better for performance cruising.

Additionally, the parts for 928's are generally cheaper, and FAR easier to find.. just do a search on &lt;insert search engine here&gt; Lotus parts and see how few sources come up

Abdul

John Struthers

Well,
How about the TT V8, A6 Audi's then?
Performance, handling, luggage space and a Qattro to boot!

Seth W

RE: The RS6 John Mentions:

Yeah is has everything you could want in a car, but it lacks what I tell my wife is that "it speaks to my soul factor". I own a HEAVILY modified A4 Wagon (290hp/300ft) from 1.8L Turbo 4 (don't even ask about reliability at this point as I'm on my 2nd turbo with 45k miles) and it can do everything you could ask from a car including great track time and hauling sod from Home Depot. However, it lacks what was referred to above as the TOY factor. Its not screaming I'm hear to be driven, and driven only and not to take crap home from the market. In fact, I think that at some point practicality in a sports car is not conducive to the pure experience as there must be some compromise. In the A6 TTv8 its the shape of the car (same as my wagon). This probably leads us to the Cayenne debate, which I will avoid at all costs.

Its just that there are some cars that are brilliant decatheletes (RS6, my A4 Wagon etc.) and some that are 100 yd sprinters and 400 meter specialists. On top of that, they have to get there in style. If the car does not speak to the soul, then it is not worth owning as one's "toy". Long winded way of saying, yes, you have identified what might be one of the greatest all around cars ever built (M5 also comes to mind) but its not the greatest, or even a great sports car b/c of the "compromise" of the shape of the body.

YMMV.

Seth
Somehow stuck in the mindset that if its to easy to drive and to comfortable and to convenient that it can't be a "real" sportscar.

John V

Seth,

very well put and exactly my impression. As a matter of personal taste, the new M3 is about the only car that comes close to bridging the realm betweeen a toy and daily driver.

Indeed, each persons soul stirs at different chords. For me, looks and fun to drive, are key ingrediants for a toy. But not just looks (like a 912 turbo body), or just performance...like blinding acceleration ... it's more of a feeling you get behind the wheel that excites, pleases and rewards you with sounds and movements that appear to be extenions of yourself. I've driven cars that are just performance animals but looking at them, or worst, behind the wheel, the experience inspires fear and not confidence. I'm not talking fear of speed, but fear that comes from the lack of connection between the car and the driver. And, I've driven cars that are not that fast but are just a joy to tool around in.

The ultimate is when all the ingredients collide AND while parked, you can't help looking back time and time again as you part company. I've never driven a Ferrari 355 but if it drives half as good is it looks, it would appear that would be my ultimate. The 360 may perform better but the looks don't move me as much.

I've read some magazines that refer to the new 911 turbo as "an appliance for speed" but discribe the driving appearance as "sterile". I have no experience here either but I do think its a shame if this is true. The old 911 may not have been the best mannered car but the joy of steering one around a track, as much with the throttle as the wheel is a pleasure that will be sorely missed.

928Benz

Seth,

Have you driven a twin turbo Supra yet? I figure since the NSX was thrown around in this thread, perhaps a Supra would be more your taste in terms of price and reliability. Only problem is, it's hard to find one. I've always thought, they sort of looked somewhat like a copy of an evolved 928, if there was to be a replacement 928. That's my opinion of course. Either way, a very solid and fast car in stock form. My friend has a 680HP version of the Supra. Very scary. Good luck.

Ed
85 928s Auto

Seth W

John:

Yes, you've got it exactly. The closest I've had to that experience in a car so far is--I hate to admit this--a 1996 Ford Probe GT. While it did not look 1/2 as good as my 928, it was the most communicative best handling ride I have ever experienced. Go figure. I mean, ever that transmission was great. Mazda was the key to that car--it was all Mazda mechanicals with Ford nameplates. It looked OK to, just not great.

The 928, and this might be the wrong place, does not connect with me from a driving perspective as well as I might have thought. I think I prefer lighter cars from a size perspective as well as "feel" perspective.


Ed: Supra TT was something I considered b4 I got the 928. Love the mechanicals--but don't like the look of the car--even though I agree the overall shape is nice, the damn tailights etc. are just details which make me dislike looking at it. To bad too, you are so right about driving potential in that car.

Snowball the 81 white 928

nobody mentions the mondial coupe, 275hp@7500 rpm and can be had in the low 30's. this is the step up that you're looking for, reliable too. nsx, can't fit. vette, good bargain, 6-sp z-07, full coverage insurance (ouch). for flash and dash, the lowly mondial keeps popping up, just as unappreciated as another marque we all know and love.

<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />