VT928

I am trying to upgrade the mirros on my 1980 Euro S to the GTS style. It is been problematic. First the PO or his paint shop epoxied the driverside mirror back together after a failure of sorts. Making it very difficult yo remove. I would not twist so the retaing bolt was impossible to get to. We had to heat it up and use a small breaker bar to force it off the base. To add insult to injury the epoxy driped over the wiring firmly attaching them to the mirror base. The current problem is that the wiring for an old car is radically different than the GTS...way more wires into the mirror, seat memerory? outside temp sensor? and I have no idea which wires theu are in the bundle. Need help big time, Jay and I trying to figure it out but it is a mess.

Thanks

Paul Mammorella
1980 Euro S Red/Blk Lea

Kevin in Atlanta

My mechanic and I studied this ad nauseum for my 86.5 and I came to the conclusion that it was not worth the aggravation. Wiring in the late model cars is night and day. At a minimum there would be additional wires that would have to run from one mirror to the other to match the wiring in the GTS.

And the mirror switch wiring is not comparable. I have a late model mirror switch if you need it.

After all how many time do you really need to adjust the mirrors? I finally left the wiring alone and they were 'digitally' activated thereafter.

Or I am totally wrong about this. YMMV.

Peter F

Here's some writing on the wiring for the newer mirrors, not sure if it will help you though.

http://www.nichols.nu/tip643.htm

http://www.nichols.nu/tip031.htm

/Peter

RDS928S

Paul,

contact Dave Lomas @Motorsport.
He sells a plug & play wiring set for the older cars to adapt to the GTS mirrors.
He also sells the GTS mirrors.
I added a set to my early 86S several years ago.
It was almost to easy with the pre-wired connectors.

Good Luck
Rich

Robert_H

Hey Paul,

I thought that my car's PO was the only one to utilize epoxy putty on things like mirrors. I am going to try tackling it using a Dremel with a cutting wheel. My guy also used it for keeping the wheel's center caps on... sheesh.

Rob

Kevin in Atlanta

Glad to see someone figured it out.

VT928

Robert,

I'm not sure it is good to be a member of the epoxy club. We heated the mirror upright with a heat gun and then slowly pried it up. It was time consuming, about 20 minutes but we did not destroy anything. Epoxy softens with heat, just don't use to much.

Paul Mammorella

1980 Euro S Red/Blk Lea

Alan

OK here is the thing.... There are GTS Aero mirrors, 2 types of S4 Flag mirrors and Pre-S4 Flag mirrors - they are all different. the biggest difference is between S4 Flags & Pre-S4 Flags.

Its actually easy to graft GTS mirrors onto an S4 - the wiring functions for memory and non-memory are exactly the same - only the connectors are different.

Converting a non-memory car to memory is a lot more complicated - need to swap parts (controller) and add quite a bit of wiring through the doors...

S4/GT/GTS cars have 2 motors - one for each plane (L<->R & U<->D) connected with one common connection, reversible polarity on all 3 connections so only one plane at a time can be driven. There is also a heater element for the glass (2 connections).

The memory mode has 4 more connections for the 2 postition feedback potentiometers (2 commons and 2 wiper connections). These are unused for non-mem mode (not sure if these are actually there on ALL mirrors - anyone? do they make non-mem specific S4 mirrors ?).

All GTS's have memory mirrors so all 928 Aero mirrors are mem enabled.

All GTSs and S4s have heated mirrors so there are 2 connections for the resistance element - just different connectors on Aeros.

GTSs also have an outside temp sensor in the bottom of the driver's side mirror housing (2 connections) - this feeds the digi-dash temp display. There is a version of the S4 Flag mirrors ('89-'91) that also has the outside temp sensor in the bottom of the driver side for the digi-dash ouside temp display - other than this all S4 Flags are the same.

Pre-S4 (<87) cars are a different beast - the mirror connections & mode of operation are quite different. (also no mem-mirror option)

There is only a single drive motor and then a sort of gearbox actuation solenoid that switches it between planes (L<->R & U<->D). So there are 2 connections for the motor (both are polarity reversible) and the solenoid has 2 more connections (it just engaged or not). This cannot be converted to the S4+ style by wiring changes alone - you'd need an electronic adaptation.

Mirror heating is implemented on the Pre-S4's the same way as the later S4 models - 2 extra connections.

In fact if you need to add Aero mirrors to a pre-S4 I'd say the best way is just to retro-fit the later control gear (only the cross-over switch & mirror switch for a non-mem) they fit directly with the right trim - and combined - you do have enough wires that go from the old switchgear to the mirror to be able to repurpose for the new configuration. You do need new loom connectors for the switches which are quite different. The only wires that are functionally directly equivalent at the mirror are the mirror heater connections which remain unchanged and just need new connectors.

Adding mem-mirrors to pre-S4's is slightly more complicated than adding it to an S4 - you just need to also add the new switchgear and wiring (either way that upgrade is a lot of work).

Alan

VT928

Arrrgh,

I am beginning to believe that this is more trouble than it is worth. After all how often do I really adjust the mirrors. Maybe I should just tistall them and mannually position the mirror glass. I am the only one that drives the car. Problem I hate to disable a system I need to make it work, I think. If I knew then what I know now I might not have started down this road, but with the money for the mirriors, paint, and all jay and my labor I am way to far into this to quit.

Paul Mammorella

1980 Euro S Red/Blk Lea

Alan

Paul if I were you this is what I'd do:

Go to a scrap yard (or call a good Porsche one)... get the mirror switches & trim plate from a S4/GT/GTS 87+ also get them to supply the door wiring harness that goes from the door connector to the mirror switches - (just cut off at the door connector is OK). Replace your mirror controls with this. Strip the wires near the switch connectors and connect to your exiting wires that go to both mirrors from your current switches - you can match as needed and adapt the other ends for the new mirror connections. You will have enough wires already routed from the switches to the mirrors. Just forget the memory functions - its too much work.

Alan

MGW-Fla

Thats a great write up Alan! You always have good info to share, Thanks!... course you lost me after the 3rd paragraph, but I'm not converting at the moment... but I did cut & paste your response to my list of shark repair info for future reference!

Dave H.

100% correct. forget wiring them up. get them on the car and call it done...

Scott M.

Paul;

Was it you or Kempf that laughed at me yesterday for suggesting that. Plus think of all the weight you'll save by trashing the wiring.

VT928

Scotty,

I think at this point our pride has taken over and we will find a way to get it done. Jay dies not give in easily. I have enough wine in the cellar to make the pain of this "simple upgrade" go away. Feel free to join us in our folly. Jay says he has one of the mirrors together and he has hung it on the car. Looks damn good.

Paul Mammorella

1980 Euro S Red/Blk Lea