Why do Porsche Lovers Hate the 928 So?
05-04-2007, 07:39 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Bret928
I tend to think that a big part of the problem is that the majority of owners of newer pcars are posers and aren't real enthusiasts...
05-04-2007, 08:11 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by Daniel Dudley
Are you using the secret wave, or just waving.
OMG, you don't know the secret wave. I can't talk to you
OMG, you don't know the secret wave. I can't talk to you
I think the guys that have said most other p-car drivers do not know what a 928 is, or do not recognize them, are correct.
Around here (Seattle area) there are so many freakin p-cars, its not funny. They are mainly late model 911's, and the owners seem clueless to me. I never bother to wave to them, I'd be waving every 2 seconds. They never wave to me, and only rarely even give my 928 a second glance. Which is cool, I'm not looking for anything from people who don't know jack about cars.
I have had a couple of p-car guys give me a wave, and it always catches me off guard, because I'm not expecting it.
A couple of times I was not able to react quickly enough to return the wave, so I am sure there are a couple of threads going on right now about what freakin snobs the 928 guys are for not waving.
05-04-2007, 08:27 PM
#20
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If you tried to flash or wave at every Porsche you saw in LA you'd either look like a cop headed to a bank robbery or a you'd never have your hands on the wheel.
05-04-2007, 08:29 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Kaz
If you tried to flash or wave at every Porsche you saw in LA you'd either look like a cop headed to a bank robbery or a you'd never have your hands on the wheel.
05-04-2007, 08:35 PM
#22
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Living in Southern California and usually driving between Laguna Beach and Newport Beach, another p-car is like seeing another toyota. They are everywhere! That said most of them are rich wives getting nice cars off of their husbands and rich business men looking for the good image. No body waves no one cares. Pretty much if I see a newer model p-car i expect to get nothing out of a wave
05-04-2007, 08:41 PM
#23
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Hmmm, I have a 993, and WANT a928 and a 944 to go with. Just have to convince the wifey that it is a good idea.
On a related subject, I was on the phone with her favorite jewelry store today...
On a related subject, I was on the phone with her favorite jewelry store today...
05-04-2007, 08:43 PM
#24
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I wave at every P-car and Lotus in my Jeep. I get waves from half the Lotuses (Lotii?) and none of the Porsches. ...not 944s, not Boxsters, not 968s, not 996/997s, and not the very rare to see 928s.
05-04-2007, 08:51 PM
#25
928 Barrister
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I started with a 356S coupe. In those days, P cars flashed at other P cars, not waved. Those days are almost ancient history. I agree that as the price of the cars went up and as Porsche moved into supercar territory including winning LeMans outright, a new breed of P car buyer emerged. I will withhold my description of them. They do not recognize the heritage. On the other hand, I find little abrasiveness from PCA people, many of whom are the people Hacker described and true enthusiasts. I also confess to a bit of aloofness toward 928s until I drove one. Hey, I was weaned on rear engined, air cooled giant killers with relatively low displacement engines, and abhor drag racing, and am a past president of a PCA region, before 928s existed. Old, huh???
05-04-2007, 09:02 PM
#26
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Can you imagine a Yuppie driving a new Viper acknowledging a driver of a 20 year old Dodge Stealth?
The average 996 driver assumes you're mistaking him for someone else. He doesn't even notice what you're driving. Like the man said, he's probably not even sure of what he's driving.
The average 996 driver assumes you're mistaking him for someone else. He doesn't even notice what you're driving. Like the man said, he's probably not even sure of what he's driving.
05-04-2007, 09:25 PM
#28
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Got this from Panorama the Porsche Club magazine for you non-members. It discribes perfectly what some of you are saying and which I agree. Sorry but it's long.
Jim Mayzurk
93 GTs 5-spd
WORRIER: This is the Porsche owner (usually a new owner) who frets constantly about every detail regarding his baby. Most of us are WORRIERS to some degree when we get our first Porsche. WORRIERS will approach everyone in the Club about which weight and brand of oil they should use in their car. They'll get on the Internet and research endlessly trying to find the best leather conditioner, aromatherapy wax, herbal car wash, tire pressure gauge, etc. They'll change their oil every 500 miles and replace the air in their tires because it might be stale. They'll shortshift their car at 2,500 rpm just to make sure it doesn't get over-revved (even though the previous owner may have regularly banged it up against redline). The WORRIER won't corner his car hard because that would place undue strain on the delicate chassis. These guys are usually cured when they discover that their **** behavior has actually done more damage than good to their car. "Well, sir, your car runs like crap because the valves and combustion chambers are totally carboned up, you should run this thing hard through the gears every once in awhile to clean it out. Or: "I'm sorry sir, but your paint was damaged by leaving the bra on your car while it was raining. "If the WORRIER isn't cured quickly he may evolve into the undesirable "QUEEN".
TECHNO: Everyone knows who the TECHNO is. He's the guy who can quote by memory the entire text of Karl Ludvigsen's massive Porsche -Excellence Was Expected. TECHNOS are useful as Club pets because at many events you don't have Internet access to the Library of Congress. They can answer most of your Porsche related questions right off the top of their head. If you want to have some fun, ask a TECHNO a question that he can't answer. He'll be up for three days straight trying to figure it out so he can preserve his honor. They can drive any kind of Porsche, it doesn't really matter, they see themselves more as experts on Porsche lore rather than active participants in the Porsche driving experience.
STATUS CONSCIOUS: Peter Schutz, former president of Porsche, once said; "For some people, a Porsche is nothing more than a fur coat, it's something you wear, not something you drive.” Peter was describing the STATUS owner. It is extremely unlikely that you will ever meet one of these owners at a Club event. Why? Because they don't know that the Club exists, and they wouldn't join it if they did. These are the people that create the unfavorable Porsche-owner stereotype. They overdress, wear too much gold, park in handicapped zones, have bad traffic manners, and look down their noses at everyone. If you happen to meet one of them in say, a parking lot, and you are not driving your Porsche, the conversation could go something like this: You: "Nice 993, how do you like it?" STATUS owner: "Actually it's not a 93, it's a 97 Porshe Carrera. I like it okay, but you have to shift it a lot and my wife's Lexus rides much better. I might trade it for a Boxer, they ride smoother and you can get an automatic in them. I know a guy at the dealership." This guy knows absolutely nothing about Porsches except what they cost. The Porsche Gods created STATUS owners so the rest of us could get good used cars. When the status effect of the car wears off and they discover that Porsches "ride like sports cars," STATUS owners sell them and move on to Lincoln SUV'S, or stretch Hummers. Meanwhile, we all suffer.
GARAGE QUEEN: These are the guys that will only drive their Porsches if they are going to a concours, and only if they absolutely have to. Even if a concours requires that a car be driven rather than trailered, a QUEEN will try to figure how he can trailer it surreptitiously within a few blocks of the show, then push it to the event (so he doesn't stir up any dirt in the engine compartment). If you are unlucky enough to have a car that he perceives as competition, be forewarned. The QUEEN will carefully scrutinize your car while wearing a facial expression like he is examining excrement. The QUEEN often has very good knowledge of the historical details of his car because that knowledge relates directly to how the car can be scored in a concourse. This knowledge also allows him to lose first place with dignity: "I guess John deserved to win first place, although I am surprised that the judges ignored the fact that he didn't have original tread-pattern Continentals on his car." QUEENS wouldn't think of driving their cars "hard" because they didn't buy them to drive, they bought them to collect trophies. The best thing about QUEENS is that you probably won't see them at any events other than concours or shows unless they also own a "driver" Porsche (see "Cautions and Warnings"). The only exception to all of this drivel is the QUEEN that owns and shows a truly classic Porsche (904 , 959, Speedster, etc). Usually you will find that this type of QUEEN will actually drive his car (even the Porsche factory pulls out the 917's once in awhile so they can flog them on a race track).
GEARHEAD: These are basically hot rodders who have chosen Porsches instead of Hemi-Cudas. The car sitting at the top of the GEARHEAD pyramid is the air-cooled Turbo. Most serious GEARHEAD cars are faster than their track-car counterparts. These cars are so highly modified that they even scare their owners. As a matter of fact, this is the ultimate goal. GEARHEADS won't stop tweaking until their cars have taken on a "You'd better watch your *** with me" attitude. When you get close to a serious GEARHEAD car you can feel the little hairs on your body stand on end, kind of like you were part of a static electricity exhibit at Science City. If you talk to one of these guys, they invariably have a tremendous amount of respect for their cars (the ones that don't are dead). GEARHEADS like to talk about the time their cars jumped up in the air and changed lanes when they grabbed fourth gear at 120 miles per hour. The cars are immaculate, except for little smears on the paint caused by hitting bugs at 150 miles per hour (on the way to the Club breakfast). GEARHEADS usually don't show up for many of the Club events because they are too busy doing things like having their pistons ceramic-coated or installing 962 water-cooled heads and 917 rotor/caliper assemblies on their cars. When they aren't tweaking their cars they relax by looking for roads in neighboring counties or states where they can "run her up to 180" without worrying about cops or other drivers. I like these guys, but I don't really want to ride with them.
WATERBOYS: These are water-cooled Porsche owners. Although this category obviously includes 928's, 924's, Boxsters, and the new 911's, I'm thinking particularly of 944's, and 968's. They are usually a friendly lot, even though they know that the purists are always thinking, "real Porsches aren't water-cooled." WATERBOYS are well tolerated these days because the turbo versions of these cars are so fast and viceless on the track. If you are an air-cooled owner and you persist in tormenting a WATERBOY, he's likely to get fed up and challenge you to a lap or two of the closest road course. Personally, I like WATERBOYS, because they really seem to enjoy their cars and they drive them "as they were intended." Besides, the new water-cooled Porsches are the best Porsches yet in terms of performance, and like it or not, they represent the future of the marquee.
PURIST: This is the guy that would make Dr. Porsche proud. He is what I aspire to be when I grow up. He owns any model of Porsche. First and foremost, the PURIST knows that Porsches are made to be driven. His car is clean and well maintained and may have been mildly modified with upgrades such as tires, wheels, a raspy exhaust system, etc. He's owned this car for awhile and he drives it regularly. His car will inevitably show the wear and tear of being a daily driver. It means that this car will probably never win a concourse, but, over the years, his car will begin to acquire a well-worn patina, similar to the kind that you would find on that jack knife that your grandfather carried around in his pocket for 40 years. Unless you, too, are a PURIST, he is having more fun with his Porsche than you are, no matter what you are doing with yours.
OLD GUARD: This member was probably a founding father of your local region of the Porsche Club. He’s seen it all. He remembers when Porsche drivers not only waved when they passed each other on the road; they actually pulled over to talk. He's owned several types of Porsches over the years and he's driven across the country in at least one of them. He has been to Parade, countless tours, driving events, open houses, and banquets. He is, by definition, mature. Because of his relatively vast experience with the marquee, he is the best member to travel with if you have an iffy car that might require technical expertise during the trip. You just have to be able to put up with his "Porschier than Thou" attitude. He has, at one time or another, been a TECHNO, WATERBOY, and probably more. He is currently a PURIST. He probably drives an air-cooled 911. Porsches are a part of his life and always will be. He tells great stories because he realizes that one of the best things that Porsches do is create fond memories.
CAUTIONS AND WARNINGS: Some owners can be classified into more than one category. This helps fine-tune the description of an individual when someone else in the Club wants to know more specifically what kind of a nut another guy is. For example, as we've already seen, OLD GUARD members, because of their experience, are particularly good at falling into many categories (and they will use this to their advantage). Since an OLD GUARD member has usually owned several types of Porsches, he has at least partial membership in many of the other groups such as the TECHNO, WATERBOY, etc. It almost always guarantees that he is a member of the TECHNOS However, the Official Rules dictate that any individual who falls into two or more categories will be classified officially as the lowest life form. Therefore, if a PURIST owns several cars, one of which he seldom drives for fear of getting dust on it, then he is officially classified as a QUEEN. (It's my game; I make the rules!)
THE OTHER GUYS: You ask, "What about the 356ers, 912ers, 914 and 914-6 owners?" Well, most of them will fall into one or more of the above descriptions, even though they weren't specifically mentioned. Besides, many of these groups have their own perverse sub-cultures including organizations, memberships, and DUES. And that's another discussion.
Jim Mayzurk
93 GTs 5-spd
WORRIER: This is the Porsche owner (usually a new owner) who frets constantly about every detail regarding his baby. Most of us are WORRIERS to some degree when we get our first Porsche. WORRIERS will approach everyone in the Club about which weight and brand of oil they should use in their car. They'll get on the Internet and research endlessly trying to find the best leather conditioner, aromatherapy wax, herbal car wash, tire pressure gauge, etc. They'll change their oil every 500 miles and replace the air in their tires because it might be stale. They'll shortshift their car at 2,500 rpm just to make sure it doesn't get over-revved (even though the previous owner may have regularly banged it up against redline). The WORRIER won't corner his car hard because that would place undue strain on the delicate chassis. These guys are usually cured when they discover that their **** behavior has actually done more damage than good to their car. "Well, sir, your car runs like crap because the valves and combustion chambers are totally carboned up, you should run this thing hard through the gears every once in awhile to clean it out. Or: "I'm sorry sir, but your paint was damaged by leaving the bra on your car while it was raining. "If the WORRIER isn't cured quickly he may evolve into the undesirable "QUEEN".
TECHNO: Everyone knows who the TECHNO is. He's the guy who can quote by memory the entire text of Karl Ludvigsen's massive Porsche -Excellence Was Expected. TECHNOS are useful as Club pets because at many events you don't have Internet access to the Library of Congress. They can answer most of your Porsche related questions right off the top of their head. If you want to have some fun, ask a TECHNO a question that he can't answer. He'll be up for three days straight trying to figure it out so he can preserve his honor. They can drive any kind of Porsche, it doesn't really matter, they see themselves more as experts on Porsche lore rather than active participants in the Porsche driving experience.
STATUS CONSCIOUS: Peter Schutz, former president of Porsche, once said; "For some people, a Porsche is nothing more than a fur coat, it's something you wear, not something you drive.” Peter was describing the STATUS owner. It is extremely unlikely that you will ever meet one of these owners at a Club event. Why? Because they don't know that the Club exists, and they wouldn't join it if they did. These are the people that create the unfavorable Porsche-owner stereotype. They overdress, wear too much gold, park in handicapped zones, have bad traffic manners, and look down their noses at everyone. If you happen to meet one of them in say, a parking lot, and you are not driving your Porsche, the conversation could go something like this: You: "Nice 993, how do you like it?" STATUS owner: "Actually it's not a 93, it's a 97 Porshe Carrera. I like it okay, but you have to shift it a lot and my wife's Lexus rides much better. I might trade it for a Boxer, they ride smoother and you can get an automatic in them. I know a guy at the dealership." This guy knows absolutely nothing about Porsches except what they cost. The Porsche Gods created STATUS owners so the rest of us could get good used cars. When the status effect of the car wears off and they discover that Porsches "ride like sports cars," STATUS owners sell them and move on to Lincoln SUV'S, or stretch Hummers. Meanwhile, we all suffer.
GARAGE QUEEN: These are the guys that will only drive their Porsches if they are going to a concours, and only if they absolutely have to. Even if a concours requires that a car be driven rather than trailered, a QUEEN will try to figure how he can trailer it surreptitiously within a few blocks of the show, then push it to the event (so he doesn't stir up any dirt in the engine compartment). If you are unlucky enough to have a car that he perceives as competition, be forewarned. The QUEEN will carefully scrutinize your car while wearing a facial expression like he is examining excrement. The QUEEN often has very good knowledge of the historical details of his car because that knowledge relates directly to how the car can be scored in a concourse. This knowledge also allows him to lose first place with dignity: "I guess John deserved to win first place, although I am surprised that the judges ignored the fact that he didn't have original tread-pattern Continentals on his car." QUEENS wouldn't think of driving their cars "hard" because they didn't buy them to drive, they bought them to collect trophies. The best thing about QUEENS is that you probably won't see them at any events other than concours or shows unless they also own a "driver" Porsche (see "Cautions and Warnings"). The only exception to all of this drivel is the QUEEN that owns and shows a truly classic Porsche (904 , 959, Speedster, etc). Usually you will find that this type of QUEEN will actually drive his car (even the Porsche factory pulls out the 917's once in awhile so they can flog them on a race track).
GEARHEAD: These are basically hot rodders who have chosen Porsches instead of Hemi-Cudas. The car sitting at the top of the GEARHEAD pyramid is the air-cooled Turbo. Most serious GEARHEAD cars are faster than their track-car counterparts. These cars are so highly modified that they even scare their owners. As a matter of fact, this is the ultimate goal. GEARHEADS won't stop tweaking until their cars have taken on a "You'd better watch your *** with me" attitude. When you get close to a serious GEARHEAD car you can feel the little hairs on your body stand on end, kind of like you were part of a static electricity exhibit at Science City. If you talk to one of these guys, they invariably have a tremendous amount of respect for their cars (the ones that don't are dead). GEARHEADS like to talk about the time their cars jumped up in the air and changed lanes when they grabbed fourth gear at 120 miles per hour. The cars are immaculate, except for little smears on the paint caused by hitting bugs at 150 miles per hour (on the way to the Club breakfast). GEARHEADS usually don't show up for many of the Club events because they are too busy doing things like having their pistons ceramic-coated or installing 962 water-cooled heads and 917 rotor/caliper assemblies on their cars. When they aren't tweaking their cars they relax by looking for roads in neighboring counties or states where they can "run her up to 180" without worrying about cops or other drivers. I like these guys, but I don't really want to ride with them.
WATERBOYS: These are water-cooled Porsche owners. Although this category obviously includes 928's, 924's, Boxsters, and the new 911's, I'm thinking particularly of 944's, and 968's. They are usually a friendly lot, even though they know that the purists are always thinking, "real Porsches aren't water-cooled." WATERBOYS are well tolerated these days because the turbo versions of these cars are so fast and viceless on the track. If you are an air-cooled owner and you persist in tormenting a WATERBOY, he's likely to get fed up and challenge you to a lap or two of the closest road course. Personally, I like WATERBOYS, because they really seem to enjoy their cars and they drive them "as they were intended." Besides, the new water-cooled Porsches are the best Porsches yet in terms of performance, and like it or not, they represent the future of the marquee.
PURIST: This is the guy that would make Dr. Porsche proud. He is what I aspire to be when I grow up. He owns any model of Porsche. First and foremost, the PURIST knows that Porsches are made to be driven. His car is clean and well maintained and may have been mildly modified with upgrades such as tires, wheels, a raspy exhaust system, etc. He's owned this car for awhile and he drives it regularly. His car will inevitably show the wear and tear of being a daily driver. It means that this car will probably never win a concourse, but, over the years, his car will begin to acquire a well-worn patina, similar to the kind that you would find on that jack knife that your grandfather carried around in his pocket for 40 years. Unless you, too, are a PURIST, he is having more fun with his Porsche than you are, no matter what you are doing with yours.
OLD GUARD: This member was probably a founding father of your local region of the Porsche Club. He’s seen it all. He remembers when Porsche drivers not only waved when they passed each other on the road; they actually pulled over to talk. He's owned several types of Porsches over the years and he's driven across the country in at least one of them. He has been to Parade, countless tours, driving events, open houses, and banquets. He is, by definition, mature. Because of his relatively vast experience with the marquee, he is the best member to travel with if you have an iffy car that might require technical expertise during the trip. You just have to be able to put up with his "Porschier than Thou" attitude. He has, at one time or another, been a TECHNO, WATERBOY, and probably more. He is currently a PURIST. He probably drives an air-cooled 911. Porsches are a part of his life and always will be. He tells great stories because he realizes that one of the best things that Porsches do is create fond memories.
CAUTIONS AND WARNINGS: Some owners can be classified into more than one category. This helps fine-tune the description of an individual when someone else in the Club wants to know more specifically what kind of a nut another guy is. For example, as we've already seen, OLD GUARD members, because of their experience, are particularly good at falling into many categories (and they will use this to their advantage). Since an OLD GUARD member has usually owned several types of Porsches, he has at least partial membership in many of the other groups such as the TECHNO, WATERBOY, etc. It almost always guarantees that he is a member of the TECHNOS However, the Official Rules dictate that any individual who falls into two or more categories will be classified officially as the lowest life form. Therefore, if a PURIST owns several cars, one of which he seldom drives for fear of getting dust on it, then he is officially classified as a QUEEN. (It's my game; I make the rules!)
THE OTHER GUYS: You ask, "What about the 356ers, 912ers, 914 and 914-6 owners?" Well, most of them will fall into one or more of the above descriptions, even though they weren't specifically mentioned. Besides, many of these groups have their own perverse sub-cultures including organizations, memberships, and DUES. And that's another discussion.
05-04-2007, 09:35 PM
#29
Hmmmm...
Looks like a big chunk of us are down on other P models as well.
What I'd like to see is that bunch of rabid Cayenne HATERS at a turbo 'Pepper' Rallye.
Those 911 series guys were the friggin pits. Oddly, Porsche did not collapse for the sin of Pepper production.
All in all, the same wave/non-wave thing has been institutionalized in the bike world.
I bought my 92' Suzuki 1100 -G (shaftie) in Seattle last Sept and did a 2 1/2 day crap for brains run back to Midland. Just east of Rifle Colo. I hit the seasons first blizzard -drive on, you flamin' idiot- when I finally got to the down side of the last mountain on the Interstate with my bike looking like a big grey/white brick I saw 5 dresser hog's running thru the first of the heavy snow (3 inches) heading west.
And the rude bastages looked, but didn't attempt to return my snow/ice encrusted wave or was that a warning? Either way, NO one could have identified wether I was on a hog or rice. Effete scum! I'll say no more.
Don't sweat it, as we obviously have much better taste in fine automobiles.
Looks like a big chunk of us are down on other P models as well.
What I'd like to see is that bunch of rabid Cayenne HATERS at a turbo 'Pepper' Rallye.
Those 911 series guys were the friggin pits. Oddly, Porsche did not collapse for the sin of Pepper production.
All in all, the same wave/non-wave thing has been institutionalized in the bike world.
I bought my 92' Suzuki 1100 -G (shaftie) in Seattle last Sept and did a 2 1/2 day crap for brains run back to Midland. Just east of Rifle Colo. I hit the seasons first blizzard -drive on, you flamin' idiot- when I finally got to the down side of the last mountain on the Interstate with my bike looking like a big grey/white brick I saw 5 dresser hog's running thru the first of the heavy snow (3 inches) heading west.
And the rude bastages looked, but didn't attempt to return my snow/ice encrusted wave or was that a warning? Either way, NO one could have identified wether I was on a hog or rice. Effete scum! I'll say no more.
Don't sweat it, as we obviously have much better taste in fine automobiles.
05-04-2007, 10:19 PM
#30
Drifting
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Thanks for the post Jim,
Guess going by those discriptions I'd classifiy myself as a "Gearhead/Waterboy". If'n I ever go with a Supercharger I could throw in Techno for good measure.
Guess going by those discriptions I'd classifiy myself as a "Gearhead/Waterboy". If'n I ever go with a Supercharger I could throw in Techno for good measure.