High end amplifier question
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: San Diego, CA USA
High end amplifier question
I'm in the market for a 5 or 6 channel amp. I'm leaning towards the MB Quart PAM5400, which is ~$450-500, but I am also intrigued by the McIntosh MCC406M, which is closer to $1300-$1500.
My question is: Does it make any sense to spend ridiculous money on an amp when my listening room (e.g., the car) is noisy? Would I be able to pick out the increased detail?
Anyone else using higher end gear? My car is progressively getting nicer, and since my current (sony) 5-channel amp seems to have given up the ghost, I'm looking at moving up a couple notches. I also run an Inifinity 10" sub in a box and Boston Acoustics separates, which I like well enough, although one upgrade tends to lead to another. . .
My question is: Does it make any sense to spend ridiculous money on an amp when my listening room (e.g., the car) is noisy? Would I be able to pick out the increased detail?
Anyone else using higher end gear? My car is progressively getting nicer, and since my current (sony) 5-channel amp seems to have given up the ghost, I'm looking at moving up a couple notches. I also run an Inifinity 10" sub in a box and Boston Acoustics separates, which I like well enough, although one upgrade tends to lead to another. . .
Last edited by bd0nalds0n; May 1, 2007 at 11:05 PM.
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From: Up Nort
Oh boy....this could get ugly 
IMO save your money. I love McIntosh equipment so it's not like I'm against buying expensive audio gear.
If you are not going to turn your car into a traveling studio, I don't see the point. Even the MB Quart might be overkill. Check out a few Alpine units or even check ebay for the Infinity Digital line. It's not going to take much to produce an excellent sound in a 928.
Now, when it comes time to finish the interior of my 81 I do plan on adding a ton of sound deadening to quiet the interior. I still wouldn't spend the cash on McIntosh amps for the car.
I might buy a McIntosh head unit just because they look so damn cool.
I know there are at least two 928's on the boards with McIntosh equipment so I'm sure someone will be pointing out how wrong I am very shortly.
IMO save your money. I love McIntosh equipment so it's not like I'm against buying expensive audio gear.
If you are not going to turn your car into a traveling studio, I don't see the point. Even the MB Quart might be overkill. Check out a few Alpine units or even check ebay for the Infinity Digital line. It's not going to take much to produce an excellent sound in a 928.
Now, when it comes time to finish the interior of my 81 I do plan on adding a ton of sound deadening to quiet the interior. I still wouldn't spend the cash on McIntosh amps for the car.
I might buy a McIntosh head unit just because they look so damn cool.
I know there are at least two 928's on the boards with McIntosh equipment so I'm sure someone will be pointing out how wrong I am very shortly.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,023
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From: Southern Utah
IMO, the only reason you need radio power in the shark is for when you hae the windows down and the sunroof open and you are going 70mph so you can hear the radio. I feel putting crystal clear audio in a car is a bit of a waste.
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From: NorCal - Bay Area
Brian - if you were to listen to some well installed Low Power aftermarket systems, it would clarify your decision.
Personally played with many high and low power solutions, and while the high power "usually" sounded slightly better, the reason is "typically" due to quality of components AND listening environment. Some seriously killer systems on a decent (not high end) 40w/4ch, with 100w bridged sub...impressive, but speaker matching and vehicle environment were <obviously> critical as well.
While I've stuck with the stock speakers in SATA (still function properly), adopting only a solid 55w/4ch with bridged 5th ch for 10" sub, it is very clean and very loud. Granted, I'm not competing and the kid with the 3 12's and 2000w neon is still louder, but it sounds very good even at speed with sunroof/windows open and cost what it should for such good clarity.
Be cost sensitive for proven brands and shy away from the marketing hype of high power and you'll be quite satisfied. Make sure to match component sensitivity as well
fwiw, cost:
Head Unit - $99 on sale
Amp - $79 on sale
Wires etc. - $40
Sub - $70 aprox w/materials
when new speakers: $50 Front; $50 Rear
$280 + my time
Personally played with many high and low power solutions, and while the high power "usually" sounded slightly better, the reason is "typically" due to quality of components AND listening environment. Some seriously killer systems on a decent (not high end) 40w/4ch, with 100w bridged sub...impressive, but speaker matching and vehicle environment were <obviously> critical as well.
While I've stuck with the stock speakers in SATA (still function properly), adopting only a solid 55w/4ch with bridged 5th ch for 10" sub, it is very clean and very loud. Granted, I'm not competing and the kid with the 3 12's and 2000w neon is still louder, but it sounds very good even at speed with sunroof/windows open and cost what it should for such good clarity.
Be cost sensitive for proven brands and shy away from the marketing hype of high power and you'll be quite satisfied. Make sure to match component sensitivity as well
fwiw, cost:
Head Unit - $99 on sale
Amp - $79 on sale
Wires etc. - $40
Sub - $70 aprox w/materials
when new speakers: $50 Front; $50 Rear
$280 + my time
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From: Reisterstown, MD
Originally Posted by bd0nalds0n
I'm in the market for a 5 or 6 channel amp. I'm leaning towards the MB Quart PAM5400, which is ~$450-500, but I am also intrigued by the McIntosh MCC406M, which is closer to $1300-$1500.
My question is: Does it make any sense to spend ridiculous money on an amp when my listening room (e.g., the car) is noisy? Would I be able to pick out the increased detail?
Anyone else using higher end gear? My car is progressively getting nicer, and since my current (sony) 5-channel amp seems to have given up the ghost, I'm looking at moving up a couple notches. I also run an Inifinity 10" sub in a box and Boston Acoustics separates, which I like well enough, although one upgrade tends to lead to another. . .
My question is: Does it make any sense to spend ridiculous money on an amp when my listening room (e.g., the car) is noisy? Would I be able to pick out the increased detail?
Anyone else using higher end gear? My car is progressively getting nicer, and since my current (sony) 5-channel amp seems to have given up the ghost, I'm looking at moving up a couple notches. I also run an Inifinity 10" sub in a box and Boston Acoustics separates, which I like well enough, although one upgrade tends to lead to another. . .
That said, I'm looking at an Infinity 6 channel amp right now to install in my 88 S4. I have a separate 4 channel and 2 channel of the same model line in my 95 Saab 9000 Aero and they are fantastic (4 channels push Harman Kardon separates and 2 channel is bridged to 1, pushing a JL WO series 12" sub in a custom box). The 6 channel can be had right now for under $250 (I believe it is model 5761a; check it out on eBay). While not super high end, it's pretty damn close, and the performance is outstanding.
Otherwise, check out Phoenix Gold, PPI, and the high end (dealer only, not the best buy junk) Alpine amps for dropping high dollars on an amp. I've never been impressed with MB Quarts. I feel like their quality has declined in the last 5 years.
Road Warrior
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I run seperates for the sub and main channels to keep loading down. fosgate sub amp and a mid priced ($450) JL to drive the diamond audio stuff. still at gregs if ya wanna play it/try it. it's got some sound stuff in the doors and rear, but my feeling is that it's diminishing returns as you go up from there unless the car is ultra quiet...
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From: Indianapolis
I am a car audio collector. I have a massive collection, and have demoed most equipment out there. Go with the MBQ. They are very nice amps. The MC stuff isn't the same any more. Its all made in Japan. I hate to summarize the industry stereotypically, but Japanese make the best source units, and America and Western Europe the best amps. There are several exceptions. Search ebay for an alpine 3566. It is a fantastic multichannel amp that can normall be had around $150 and was installed factory in Lamborghini's back in the day.
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I have a JL Audio e6450 six-channel full-range amp bought NIB off ebay about a year ago.
I like it but readily admit I'm not an audiophile and don't know the good from the bad from the ugly.
I like it but readily admit I'm not an audiophile and don't know the good from the bad from the ugly.
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Brian,
To spend that much on an amp you'd have to match it with the best quality head unit, wiring, speakers & power source (upgrades) to get the full value out of it... Given that no car - (but especially a 928) is a noise free environment when moving - nor do any have ideal acoustics... its hard to consider and rate it the same way you would an in-home audio system.
Only you can decide what you want and value - but for most it would be overkill... Here you can probably get 99% of the quality for ~60% of the price - so it makes a big difference. Plus many of the super premium units are so big as to be almost impossible to hide and are a bit of a theft magnet too....
Alan
To spend that much on an amp you'd have to match it with the best quality head unit, wiring, speakers & power source (upgrades) to get the full value out of it... Given that no car - (but especially a 928) is a noise free environment when moving - nor do any have ideal acoustics... its hard to consider and rate it the same way you would an in-home audio system.
Only you can decide what you want and value - but for most it would be overkill... Here you can probably get 99% of the quality for ~60% of the price - so it makes a big difference. Plus many of the super premium units are so big as to be almost impossible to hide and are a bit of a theft magnet too....
Alan
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,868
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From: San Diego, CA USA
Thanks for the input. What I have going on is a bit of mission creep. My current amp is around 45wx4 and 100 or so x1 for the sub. What I liked about it was a separate subwoofer gain **** that ran via a telephone plug to the amp. So I was looking specifically for amps that had the same kind of phone plug. My EQ does have a subwoofer level control, but it's electronic and not analog; you have to navigate menus to get to it, which I would rather not have to do while driving.
The MBQ seemed like a reasonable compromise (twice as much as many, but 1/3 the cost of a really high end amp), although there was an Eclipse amp that might also do the trick for around $350.
I do have an older Denon 6-channel amp in my truck that would probably be a good candidate, although the dimensions aren't as close (squarer, less rectangular) than what my current configuration will accommodate. I think most Denon car audio was actually Sony in a different box, but I am partial to Denon home audio.
The JL slash 5 channel amp seemed interesting, but it's ~100 watts x2 to the front, but only ~25x2 to the rear, and a single channel of 100 or 200 watts. The difference between f/r doesn't make any sense to me.
The repair center hasn't gotten back to me yet (the amp will periodically go into "overload protect" over bumps)--if I can get it fixed for $100 - $150, I'll probably just do that, simply because it fits in a custom cutout and is a known quantity.
However, it's always fun to upgrade. Thanks again to those who have expressed an opinion and feel free to keep chiming in.
The MBQ seemed like a reasonable compromise (twice as much as many, but 1/3 the cost of a really high end amp), although there was an Eclipse amp that might also do the trick for around $350.
I do have an older Denon 6-channel amp in my truck that would probably be a good candidate, although the dimensions aren't as close (squarer, less rectangular) than what my current configuration will accommodate. I think most Denon car audio was actually Sony in a different box, but I am partial to Denon home audio.
The JL slash 5 channel amp seemed interesting, but it's ~100 watts x2 to the front, but only ~25x2 to the rear, and a single channel of 100 or 200 watts. The difference between f/r doesn't make any sense to me.
The repair center hasn't gotten back to me yet (the amp will periodically go into "overload protect" over bumps)--if I can get it fixed for $100 - $150, I'll probably just do that, simply because it fits in a custom cutout and is a known quantity.
However, it's always fun to upgrade. Thanks again to those who have expressed an opinion and feel free to keep chiming in.
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2004
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From: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted by Courtshark
That said, I'm looking at an Infinity 6 channel amp right now to install in my 88 S4. The 6 channel can be had right now for under $250 (I believe it is model 5761a; check it out on eBay). While not super high end, it's pretty damn close, and the performance is outstanding.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lake Elsinore, California
Touch screen video head unit with SD card and video input. 30 gig MP3 player hooked up. Orion PSW300 pre amp, 2 Butler audio 2 channel amps for mids and highs. PPI mono amp for subs driving 4 kicker 8s in fiberglass enclosure. MB Quarts in doors and Nakamichis in rear quarter panels......Thinking of putting in a set of image dynamics waveguides in the front and one more amp to drive them.
Start by tearing the interior out and installing sound deadening material of your choice. You don't have to spend a ton on mobile audio...go with equipment that fits your listening taste and budget. Want pics?
http://groups.msn.com/socal928/doorbarrier.msnw?Page=1
Start by tearing the interior out and installing sound deadening material of your choice. You don't have to spend a ton on mobile audio...go with equipment that fits your listening taste and budget. Want pics?
http://groups.msn.com/socal928/doorbarrier.msnw?Page=1
Thread Starter
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,868
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From: San Diego, CA USA
I've put in a lot of brown bread in almost all the areas except the driver's door (floor, hatch, behind the quarters, passenger door). Most of the sound seems to be coming from the firewall (or around the front left tire). I guess the thing to do would be to pull the dash, but I gotta be honest, I don't see that happening. Although I will get around to the driver's door.
I did get a head unit with USB, so I've got a few micro drives that I can switch out. Much superior to an iPod hookup, IMO.
Oscar, I can totally appreciate what you've done; what I'm looking for is a compromise between good, clean, accurate sound while maintaining as much of the stock (or hidden) look and sacrificing as little trunk/hatch space as possible.
For the time being, I think a slightly more powerful and capable amp will do. If there's another upgrade, it will be a bigger subwoofer box and a tighter driver--no matter how small the box the woofer is designed to work in, they all seem to do better with more volume (within reason). Then would come the upgraded separates.
It's not unlike the racing flowchart Jim posted the other day...lighter, bigger brakes, bigger footprint, more power....lighter. . .
That infinity amp is looking appealing, if the sub level accepts a phone jack connector.
I did get a head unit with USB, so I've got a few micro drives that I can switch out. Much superior to an iPod hookup, IMO.
Oscar, I can totally appreciate what you've done; what I'm looking for is a compromise between good, clean, accurate sound while maintaining as much of the stock (or hidden) look and sacrificing as little trunk/hatch space as possible.
For the time being, I think a slightly more powerful and capable amp will do. If there's another upgrade, it will be a bigger subwoofer box and a tighter driver--no matter how small the box the woofer is designed to work in, they all seem to do better with more volume (within reason). Then would come the upgraded separates.
It's not unlike the racing flowchart Jim posted the other day...lighter, bigger brakes, bigger footprint, more power....lighter. . .
That infinity amp is looking appealing, if the sub level accepts a phone jack connector.