kjurkic

I was just doing a quick check of fluid levels & filters & found that the separator was full of gelled moisture; lots of pasty, creamy fluid.

I should point out that our weather has been highly humid & hovering around the freezing mark. Most of my driving the last few weeks has been short hops that barely give the car a chance to warm up.

There was no "chocolate milk" in the crankcase, so I wasn't too concerned about blown head gasket, or other leakage, but I would like to know if collecting goop like this is normal.

Regards,
Ken
ps attached pic; hope it loads
[IMG]oil/air[/IMG]

kjurkic

Sooo. nobody knows, or nobody wants to be the bearer of bad tidings?

Ken

hupp

Ken,

Moisture can be typically found here since this is where your crank case vents. Never seen it as beed as in your pic, but this may be due to your very short trips. In the future you should allow it to get hot enough to vaporize any condensation in the crank case.

I would give the shark a good look-over to ensure that you do not have water leaking into the oil via gasket, oil cooler etc.

marton

What he said.

The best place to check for traces of water in the oil is at the highest point; that is the inside of the oil filler cap. If you are loosing water from the cooling system into the motor then I would expect to see a significant level drop in the expansion tank.

Marton

Mrmerlin

clean out this mess and go for a long drive say at least 150 miles and check it. Also look for the other lines that attach to the cap one may be blocked and thius not working as it should

ZEUS+

Condensation sludge is a common thing in colder climate areas. It is basically sulfuric acid formation of water and the sulfur in fuel. Poor engine breathing and minimal driving are contributing factors. Clean up and go for a good drive as suggested. Not coolant related if this is the only issue.

dr bob

Drain some oil into a glass jar and let it set a bit. The moisture, if there is any, will be on the bottom after a while. Unfortunately, by the time you strat to notice a water layer in a sample glass, it's way too much. I know that in gas turbines, we look at PPM levels of moisture and start to think about catastrophe, so you get an idea.

Coolant ends up in the oil as a result of head gasket failure and sometimes from block or head cracking. The coolng system stays pressurized long after the engine stops, so coolant flows to the oil system. Sometimes a lot of short-trip driving in coldest climates will cause condensation in the sump from ring leakage, but a good warmed-up drive would usually clear almost all evidence of that contamination.

So-- Do compression and leakdown tests to determine if you have a headgasket giving out. Do it soon, before the water in the oil causes bearing failure or piston scuffing.

Has the car been overheated in the past?

kjurkic

I don't know a lot about the history of this car. Bought it a month ago in Chilliwack (Vancouver area).

Spent three weeks on Vancouver Island then that last 2 weeks at home. Wet, wet, wet the entire time, with lotsa heavy wet snow thrown in for good measure (>1meter here in 24hrs last week, plus sh!tl0ads of rain mixed in).

I will try the oil sample stratification, and check the compression soon.

Thanks all
Ken

SharkSkin

Your short trips could be the culprit. I agree that you should clean it up then drive it and see what happens, but I would take a more cautious approach. You say the oil looked OK -- good news. So I'd say clean up the oil separator, then drive 5 miles. Check oil & check separator. Then drive 10 miles. Check again. If OK, drive further, etc. If you can put 100-150 miles on it, great -- but keep a very close eye on the state of the oil.

I would NOT get in and drive 150 miles right off the bat -- you need to make sure that you're not getting water in the oil. If you are, stop and tow it home, don't drive it till you get it sorted out(and don't wait long, water in the crankcase should not be left to rot.

AJK

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but mine looked like that when the head gasket went. However, another thing you will notice if it's the head gasket is a lot of white smoke (steam actually) on start up.

Here is a pretty good test to see if you are leaking coolant into the cylinders. Start the car and run to op temp. Turn off and immediately vent the cooling system by cracking open the coolant filler cap. Use a towel and do it slowly so you don't burn yourself. Let the car cool over night. If on starting the next day you get no smoke out the tail pipe, and you did get smoke on startup normally, then you've likely got a blown head gasket, cracked block, etc.

What is happening here (as noted above) is that there is pressure in the cooling system long after the engine is shut down and if you have a leak, that pressure will force coolant into the cylinders. When you start the engine the next time (if you don't get a hydraulic lock) that coolant will turn to steam and flow out the tail pipe. Since combustion pressure is much greater then coolant pressure no more coolant will enter the system and the steam cloud will stop after a minute or two.

juvius

i had a cracked head/bad headgasket. if you don't see what's in the picture below, i wouldn't worry too much. just follow the suggestions given.


good luck,
steve

kjurkic

Thanks to everyone for the ideas so far.

No steam at startup or any time; I race the local circle track, and have seen/had my share of blown HG's, so I know what that looks like.

I will do a comp/ leak down test sometime next weekend; I need to replace the injector hoses & want to look at the plugs anyway. Long trips to burn-off contaminants in the oil will have to wait until I get the ball joints done.

Steve: I assume thats your dipstick? seen that plenty of times in my experience; not seeing that here (yet?) we call that "Latte du huile" around here.

Respect à tous

Ken

chiod1

dont all cars steam at startup in cold temps? my 928 does, then it goes away after it warms up. So deos my lexus. I have found no coolant in the oil and no oil in the coolant. i drive around and see almost every car steaming from the tail(in cold temps). Should there be absolutely no steam ever? I have read contradicting things about this. Some say the catalysts will cause some steam. I dont know what to think.

kjurkic

Chiod-1,

Depending on air temp, exhaust temp, & relative humidity, you will see steam, especially at startup.

A blown headgasket will produce HUGE clouds at first, until coolant gone. When you see the results of a seriously blown gasket, you will know it right away; it looks like "go go gadget smoke screen!"

Having said that, partial or slow leaks can develop that don't give such immediate confirmation, hence the need for compression/leak-down tests.

My question that started all this was because I have never had a vehicle with separator, and the amount of goop seemed a little excessive; I don't yet know what is normal for a 928, but I will get there eventually, especially with all the helpful folk here =8^)

Regards
Ken

PorKen

I would check to see if the cap and/or hose is plugged to the intake U. You need vacuum to disperse the water vapor in the 16V separator at cold temps. (Gunk increased when I tried venting directly out of the cap, but again reduced if connected to the intake, or to an exhaust vent.)

The separator cap, '80-, has a restrictor cast in it. IIRC, it's about 8mm, even though the hose is >20mm. ('78-'79 caps are full sized, but they originally vented to the airbox.)