Scot's euro 5 liter racer IT STARTS, but big problems. (NEWS) PROBLEM FOUND!!!!!
04-07-2007, 03:07 PM
#31
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks Normy,
it has a RRFR, and pressure is fine at 50psi.( i even backed it out a bit just incase) the problem is full rich at start up and idle speeds. it wont even start with the AFM in place. in fact, i get so much fuel, that it is starting to fill the cylinders.(you can see fuel puddled in the holes by looking through the spark plug holes)
so, you seeing 1800ohms is near operational temp, as operational temp of 180f is supposed to be 400ohms. im measureing 4.5k ohms when cold (ie 20c or 70f) there is also a different spec for the euro version, of near 4.5k vs the us 3.5Kohm spec when cold (ie 70f)
MK
it has a RRFR, and pressure is fine at 50psi.( i even backed it out a bit just incase) the problem is full rich at start up and idle speeds. it wont even start with the AFM in place. in fact, i get so much fuel, that it is starting to fill the cylinders.(you can see fuel puddled in the holes by looking through the spark plug holes)
so, you seeing 1800ohms is near operational temp, as operational temp of 180f is supposed to be 400ohms. im measureing 4.5k ohms when cold (ie 20c or 70f) there is also a different spec for the euro version, of near 4.5k vs the us 3.5Kohm spec when cold (ie 70f)
MK
Originally Posted by Normy
What I recommend is that you first work out the problem with the T2, or make sure that the computer is getting a proper T2 signal before trying that modification.
Try the resistor idea if you want, but I suspect that you'll find the car just runs rich all the time and you'll be forced to install hot plugs to keep them from fouling. An RRFPR is probably a better idea.
Check your manuals- in the section that deals with LH, there is a description [an S2 is used as the example car, in fact] on how to test the T2, and it has a chart of T2 resistance versus temperature. I can't remember off hand what the range is at 30 C, but my 1800 ohms was right in the ballpark. 400-500k ohms?
N
Try the resistor idea if you want, but I suspect that you'll find the car just runs rich all the time and you'll be forced to install hot plugs to keep them from fouling. An RRFPR is probably a better idea.
Check your manuals- in the section that deals with LH, there is a description [an S2 is used as the example car, in fact] on how to test the T2, and it has a chart of T2 resistance versus temperature. I can't remember off hand what the range is at 30 C, but my 1800 ohms was right in the ballpark. 400-500k ohms?
N
04-11-2007, 01:53 AM
#32
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Found part of the issue!! YES! it was a bone head move. after studying the manuals, i finally picked up on the color of the connectors. got to the shop today with my fluke meter in hand, and guess what i found????? blue connector on the Temp II . Its part of the bundle with the black connector that fits the cold start injector and the aux air regulator. the temp 2 connector is bundled with the full throttle micro switch. Now the bad news. the car started right up, sounded MEAN, and then it started to get so rich, it would barely run. temp II working. AFM is installed, but what the heck?????
put a meter on the temp II sensor and when hot, (180ish water temp) it was at 4.5Kohms. (BAD!)
its supposed to be 4.5Kohms when cold, not HOT, where its supposed to be near 400ohms!!
so, the question, what the heck is the sensor made with . is it a sensitive device that could be damaged by having a cold start injector attached to it or a aux air valve connector?????????
thanks
by the way, tomorrow, we are going to try and replace it, or at least put in a 400ohm resistor when it gets hot
either way, we measured 4.5Kohms at the temp II. measureing between the pins. pins measured between ground, showed HUGE resistance in the Mega ohm range. so , i think the test on this device is between the pins.
mk
put a meter on the temp II sensor and when hot, (180ish water temp) it was at 4.5Kohms. (BAD!)
its supposed to be 4.5Kohms when cold, not HOT, where its supposed to be near 400ohms!!
so, the question, what the heck is the sensor made with . is it a sensitive device that could be damaged by having a cold start injector attached to it or a aux air valve connector?????????
thanks
by the way, tomorrow, we are going to try and replace it, or at least put in a 400ohm resistor when it gets hot
either way, we measured 4.5Kohms at the temp II. measureing between the pins. pins measured between ground, showed HUGE resistance in the Mega ohm range. so , i think the test on this device is between the pins.
mk
04-11-2007, 03:59 AM
#33
Race Director
MK
it makes sense that the temp sender is causing the problem....since when the fail they turn everything rich, since they can't read the heat.....just swap it out.....it doesn't look hard to change, unless OB's are quite a bit different?
it makes sense that the temp sender is causing the problem....since when the fail they turn everything rich, since they can't read the heat.....just swap it out.....it doesn't look hard to change, unless OB's are quite a bit different?
04-11-2007, 12:32 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mark kibort
either way, we measured 4.5Kohms at the temp II. measureing between the pins. pins measured between ground, showed HUGE resistance in the Mega ohm range. so , i think the test on this device is between the pins.
04-11-2007, 01:42 PM
#36
Inventor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
On a L-Jet...
LH-Jet is checked each pin to ground!
The cold start thermo switch gets unfused 12V while cranking, so I suppose that could fry the Temp II sensor if the two connectors were swapped.
As Charles says, you really should 'chuck' the entire L-Jet cold start system. He uses a momentary switch (I use a relay) to short the Temp II briefly, when cranking a dead cold engine. This manual system works, even in NW winters.
thread
Originally Posted by the flyin' scotsman
the resistance check is performed from pin to pin.
The cold start thermo switch gets unfused 12V while cranking, so I suppose that could fry the Temp II sensor if the two connectors were swapped.
As Charles says, you really should 'chuck' the entire L-Jet cold start system. He uses a momentary switch (I use a relay) to short the Temp II briefly, when cranking a dead cold engine. This manual system works, even in NW winters.
thread
04-11-2007, 02:35 PM
#37
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Its all removed , and has been. but, i think mixing up the connectors hurt the temp 2 . Is this possible. the two connectors i was using was the cold start aux air and cold start injector (both gone as i said) both of those are getting some voltage to those other devices. plugging them into temp2 could fry it i guess.
Ill put a resistor of 200ohms once it gets up to temp and see if that works. then, i guess its an order to get a new one!
does anyone know how sensitive the temp 2 device is? all things are pointing to it. especially the fact that the engine worked well when cold and when it warmed up it was rich and barely ran! resistance was not changed pin to pin on the temp 2 when hot. guess that means its bad!
mk
Ill put a resistor of 200ohms once it gets up to temp and see if that works. then, i guess its an order to get a new one!
does anyone know how sensitive the temp 2 device is? all things are pointing to it. especially the fact that the engine worked well when cold and when it warmed up it was rich and barely ran! resistance was not changed pin to pin on the temp 2 when hot. guess that means its bad!
mk
Originally Posted by PorKen
On a L-Jet...LH-Jet is checked each pin to ground!
The cold start thermo switch gets unfused 12V while cranking, so I suppose that could fry the Temp II sensor if the two connectors were swapped.
As Charles says, you really should 'chuck' the entire L-Jet cold start system. He uses a momentary switch (I use a relay) to short the Temp II briefly, when cranking a dead cold engine. This manual system works, even in NW winters.
thread
The cold start thermo switch gets unfused 12V while cranking, so I suppose that could fry the Temp II sensor if the two connectors were swapped.
As Charles says, you really should 'chuck' the entire L-Jet cold start system. He uses a momentary switch (I use a relay) to short the Temp II briefly, when cranking a dead cold engine. This manual system works, even in NW winters.
thread
04-12-2007, 02:52 PM
#41
Pro
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Mill Creek, Wa
Posts: 628
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey - Careful before you "Chuck" anything... Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeezzzzzz
Ooooooh.. speaking of "Chucking" things.. I finished my first Lexan headlight cover.. maybe photos of the revamped (Chucked) bumper, lights, and paint on Monday...
Chuck
83 Kiln Red 928S
Ooooooh.. speaking of "Chucking" things.. I finished my first Lexan headlight cover.. maybe photos of the revamped (Chucked) bumper, lights, and paint on Monday...
Chuck
83 Kiln Red 928S
04-12-2007, 03:05 PM
#42
Inventor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Malcolm,
I was just making sure the differences between the L and LH Temp II sensors was clear. The testing procedure seems to come up frequently.
...
Heinrich,
I'm here all week!
...
Chuck,
Pictures!
I just bought a pair of original 8" Bosch H4's (no blip on top) for my '86. The shame!
I am going to look at making a lighter weight pop-up bar, though.
I was just making sure the differences between the L and LH Temp II sensors was clear. The testing procedure seems to come up frequently.
...
Heinrich,
I'm here all week!
...
Chuck,
Pictures!
I just bought a pair of original 8" Bosch H4's (no blip on top) for my '86. The shame!
I am going to look at making a lighter weight pop-up bar, though.
04-12-2007, 10:46 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK FOLKS!!!!!! IT RUNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Used a bunch of 50 and 20ohm resistors, with couple of filed down spade male connectors and plugged it in to the wiring for TempII YES, that was the problem. we provided power to the temp 2 via the incorrect connections using the aux air and cold start injector, IT BURNED OUT THE TEMP II. as it turns out, the temp 2 is a very sensitive device that has a bimetalic strip inside that change resistance from 4000ohm to 300ohm when hot. i just plugged in a hodge podge of restors and low and behold, it RAN and ran well!!!!! (after warming it up)
got the temp 2 on order from 928intl for $30 bucks and off we go to the races. (LITERALLY, MAY 5)
scot will put some miles on it. Ive logged 10 miles and have even floored it a few times. ITS FAST!! and it runs GREAT! fuel pressure is up near 52psi, like my old part euro that made 293rwhp. we will dyno it in a couple of weeks and check fuel and HP output.
5 liter part euro, US Ljet, ready to go racing!
Thanks for the help guys. I knew it had to be something stupid, and it was. Note to self: mark connectors with tags next time!
MK
MK
Used a bunch of 50 and 20ohm resistors, with couple of filed down spade male connectors and plugged it in to the wiring for TempII YES, that was the problem. we provided power to the temp 2 via the incorrect connections using the aux air and cold start injector, IT BURNED OUT THE TEMP II. as it turns out, the temp 2 is a very sensitive device that has a bimetalic strip inside that change resistance from 4000ohm to 300ohm when hot. i just plugged in a hodge podge of restors and low and behold, it RAN and ran well!!!!! (after warming it up)
got the temp 2 on order from 928intl for $30 bucks and off we go to the races. (LITERALLY, MAY 5)
scot will put some miles on it. Ive logged 10 miles and have even floored it a few times. ITS FAST!! and it runs GREAT! fuel pressure is up near 52psi, like my old part euro that made 293rwhp. we will dyno it in a couple of weeks and check fuel and HP output.
5 liter part euro, US Ljet, ready to go racing!
Thanks for the help guys. I knew it had to be something stupid, and it was. Note to self: mark connectors with tags next time!
MK
MK
