Mike Simard

If you want to keep the project simple you could use the stock distributors. Lizard alluded to 'fuel only', that's letting a distributor do it's role all by itself like the old days. The next step would be keeping the distributors but sending a tach signal to MS and letting it determine timing and send back a signal to the coil when to fire, that's still fairly simple and you have accurate control of your timing. There's no need to step up to a toothed ring unless you want to take it on to enjoy ditributorless ignition. BTW, how does a '80 distributor handle timing? Is it done mechanically or does it send a signal to a brain somewhere? Either way it could be used for a simple MS conversion. As for other bits, use a wideband O2 sensor like the Innovative LC1, the best thing about MS is being able to log data, without a wideband you'll never be sure of your mixture.

BC

Mike - technically, if you are willing to use Ford EDIS stuff, it is excedingly simple as a hookup and use, as the EDIS has its own computer in the mix controlling dwell, (I think thats how to describe). 1 or 2 wires then go back to the MS box so that IT knows what is going on.

But at that point, again, no matter what, you need to have a 36-1 wheel being triggered somewhere off the crank movement. NOT cam movement, crank movement.

But as you mention, the 80's ignition system is so simple - its a silver box in the passenger side at the front of the engine bay, with a coil, and an 8 cylinder distributor. You could have TOTAL control over the fuel, but in reality, to get the last drop from an engine, as we all know, its the ignition timing that is the black magic.

Mike Simard

Yes, having EDIS controlling coil dwell saves a potenial headache of trying different settings yourself and that can be a big advantage and it is indeed a rugged stand alone sytem that only needs a simple signal from MS for accurate timing and eliminating a mechanical distributor is a good thing but I would still suggest to Ken that he may not need to go that far. Judging be Ken's tone I feel that he may opt for a simpler setup, to start off with at least. As long as he uses the distributors there's no need for a toothed wheel.
Spark timing isn't as important as some might think. There's an initial amount and total advance coming in at a certain point along with adjustments for manifold vacuum. 2 valve motors like a certain max timing, 4 valve like it a little sooner and most all like it to come in around 3000 rpm. Not much can be gained from playing with generic spark settings, besides, there will be plenty of opportunity to tune tiny details of fuel control.
So there's a control box with a '80 ignition? That's great! Take the signal from the distributor, determine whether it's hall or VR for the MS setup, run that wire into MS and MS will have an output wire going to the coil and will control spark timing from it's internal spark map (which you'll wind up leaving alone). Voila! That just leaves adjusting the dwell settings until it behaves properly. Ken. a tip: if you're working on a tricky intricate aspect of your installation, stick your tounge out of your mouth slightly for improved dexterity

Jim bailey - 928 International

I fail to see the purpose of the conversion on a STOCK engine. Perhaps comes down to do you want to drive or tinker ? The good thing about aftermarket engine management is it is ALL adjustable the BAD THING is it ALL MUST BE ADJUSTED ! After all the 78-79 CISs and 1980-82 4.5 liters make about the same power, The 4.7 euro CISs made 300 while the 84-86 LH euro made 310 hp. Changing just the injection I doubt will do that much for performance ! A set of headers would probably do more.

sublimate

I think being abe to dump the barndoor may be enough of an improvement to make it worthwhile.
Sure, you can do a MAF conversion, but you might be able to do the megasquirt for about the same cost and have something that can easily keep up with any future mods.

Lizard928

wrong, reason all the wires which would be tagged would be in the cabin where there will still be in good condition.

you have L jet so you have to have a toothed setup somewhere, I am positive that it is off the crank but how many teeth or what type of a setup it is I have no idea.

If you arent interested in spark control right now (can always come later) then just cut and hack the factory harness (or make an adapter) to the MS box, then you will be sailing.
You will only need to run a vacuum hose into the cabin (sorry cannot tag into the HVAC) for the MAP.


When you are ready to run spark control as well you can always just unplug the harness from the ign module and run a new wire with a male spade on it over to the plug for the ign module and have the MS control it then, you will also need a wire from the hall sensor in the dizzy back to the MS too.

BC

I never mention nor was referring to the wires inside the car.
The wires ARE brittle when they come out of the fire wall into the engine bay. The connectors for the injectors, sensors, ect. The amount of moeny and effort to do that part correctly is small in relation to the entire project.

BC

L-jets and K jets both have no teeth.
80-83

84


BUT, as you have found when you recieved my 84 flywheel, the 36 teeth fit very nicely around it.

Lizard928

weird, L jet is what the 944s run right? so what signals the stock brain on that?

if you dont have a toothed setup now, i recommend that you add a 36-1 ring off the crank at the front then if you decide to run edis in the future you can

Raceboy

No, 944 runs on Motronic, not L-Jet.
Older L-Jets used troigger in the distributor. LH-Jet used trigger teeth on flywheel.

Lizard928

ok thanks for explaining that.

Jim bailey - 928 International

My point was the Euro 4.7 S when they switched from CIS to the much more modern uptodate LH hot wire mass air system gained 10 hp ...and that was with a bit more compression. The early CIS and 1980 Barn door L-jet made basically the same power.....so by deduction IF you put LH on a stock 4.5 what should you expect ?? MAYBE 10 HP. So unless the long term plan is major engine modifications to utilize the capability of a modern engine management system it to me seems like a lot of effort , potential to create problems for very little improvement in performance and questionable gains in reliability and makes it a car which no one else will ever be able to work on...

BC

It is smoothness of running, proper fuel usage, and tuning for upgraded parts, which you get MORE benefit from when you can tune the engine with EFI.


20 years have passed since the LH was new. 25 since the barn door was a bright idea.

Jim bailey - 928 International

How many 928s are now running aftermarket injection ??

BC

1 or 2 that I know of.