hacker-pschorr

You can buy the same stuff (or close to it) from WURTH - I have a bottle on the bench.

SharkSkin

Yeah Erik, I stocked up on that as well as the nickel stuff for when I do exhaust work. Cheap insurance!

jon928se

You're correct it is in the Tech Specs - well at least the "all other bolts - size - torque" part. But I don't recall seeing a generic - all other bolts lube with anti sieze or whatever.

SharkSkin

Jon, I'm not sure where I might(or might not) have seen that in the Porsche literature, but it's been my practice to always use antiseize unless a specific procedure is called out, like with head bolts. I have never, ever broken or stripped a fastener that I had previously installed with anti-seize. I recently did a little wrenching on the truck I've had for ~22 years, some of the fasteners I hadn't touched in close to 20 years -- and they came right apart. YMMV.

T_MaX

Being that the question as been answered, let me just throw this in!

What "color" is it that a mechanic hates to "hear"?



PINK!

jon928se

Dave

I was more asking the question "Does anyone know what the form is?" for those "all other " bolts. Not trying to provoke an argument or even vaguely provoke a non argument if that makes sense.

Sounds like your practice is the same as mine where there is no obvious WSM specific procedure. Where it doesn't say "do it this way", I'll do it my way, based upon about 25 years of sometimes expensively learned lessons (and you'll do it your way which sounds like it would be the same as my way)

Unfortunately for those reading and wrenching for the first time with a void in the WSM and no experience gained through **** ups on less expensive subjects this could lead to a block with a load of holes with no thread left in them.

I recently had news of my first Landrover - sold 21 years ago when it was then 23 years young. Amongst many other jobs I did while owning it, the most taxing was a suspension rebuild The most useful spanner was conncted to two bottles one named oxy and the other named acetylene. I rebuilt it all using plated bolts and used antisieze.

The current owner has just rebuilt the suspension and it all came apart with no problems.

SharkSkin

Understood Jon -- My motto: Do it the Porsche way... or better.

H2

RE: Torque settings and Anti-seize, take a look at these links:

http://www.saftlok.com/safteze/antiseiz/index.htm

http://mdmetric.com/tech/data1torque.html

I'm not sure I can fully decipher the second link but it seems to also substantiate a reduction in torque when using anti-seize.

Harvey

Tom928

I really began to wonder about this Harvey, so I called Sunset Porsche here in Oregon and talked with the service manager.
I posed the question "Does the Porsche WSM stated torque values take into account the use of anti-seize or lubricated threads?"
Answer is beginning in 1993 Porsche began taking into account the use of anti-seize on torque values specified in ALL WSM's. Before 1993 the values were specified for lubricated threads only."

He iterated that this is one reason why there is usually a span to the torque value (like 10 +2) because if you use a lubricant you use the lower value, without it you increase it by the +2 amount.

I asked about using anti-seize on early 928's (like early 80's) he said to use the lower value should be fine; however, you could call some Porsche shops and see what they do for the earlier cars.

I hope this helps

H2

Thanks, Tom. That's helpful. I just know what a bear it is to fix stripped threads or broken bolts. What I don't want to know is what would happen if a WP bolt were to back out because it wasn't torqued enough.

The info you've provided is great...and obviously works.

Harvey

SharkSkin

Thanks for the info, Tom.

Harvey, on that first link, read the fine print... it's general practice to at least put some engine oil on threads, but they are comparing their product to "dry threads". This is kind of like the mouthwash ads -- "reduces cavities X% over brushing alone"... but if you read the fine print, "brushing alone" means using no toothpaste at all. (BTW it was my dentist who pointed that one out to me).

Kind of an unfair comparison, I'd guess the difference between anti-seize and oil would be less than 10%.

Acrobat Reader being the utter piece of garbage that it is, it crashed 4 times trying to search through my PDF WSM's... but before I said to hell with it, I ran across this note about spark plugs:

Tech Bulletin 1984-1993, P.34 of PDF, group 4 #8403:

is recommended to lubricate the threads of spark plugs lightly with graphite grease (Molykote paste HTP white), or equivalent, prlor to lnstallatlon. Make sure paste is kept off the electrode and inside of the spark plug

They also mention using Optimoly HT(Copper paste) on lug nuts and tightening to 96 ft/lbs., but I didn't copy down the exact location of this reference. What it means though, is that everyone who has been torquing their lug nuts to 96 ft/lbs *without* anti-seize has been under-torquing their lug nuts, and everyone who does not use anti-seize on their sparkplugs has been under-torquing them....


Very likely there are other references... I'm too frustrated with A-Dopey Inc. and their POS Reader right now to find them.

SharkSkin

OK, one more:

P. 40-14 of WSM:
Optimoly HT (copper-colored)
For steel-steel threaded connections and contact surfaces of assembly parts. Never use Optimoly HT on contact surfaces of steel to light alloy, as moisture will produce corrosion. When applied to threads, this lubricant has no effect on tightening
torques.

Optimoly TA (aluminum color)
For all connections with aluminum or with magnesium, for corrosion protection. When applied to threads, this lubricant has a slight effect on tightening torques.

Done now.

H2

Dave,

If you were in my class...I'd give you an "A" Anyone who can negotiate the WSM and actually find the answer you're looking for must be clarivoyant.

Gracias! Now....back to torquing.

Harvey

Namvet

ALL Alloy engines require Anti seize on Bolt threads. The Bolts are NOT aluminum. The threads ARE!

Set snug. Tighten a bit more, and don't worry about the Tork Wrench. Aluminum expands more than Steel!
Temps set them happy. If you crank the bolt too much. it galls and destroys the alloy thread.

The Aluminum block and threads are the STD!

Fischead54

on important jobs buy new hardware as bolts stretch and weaken!