84/USA/5-spd, running on 4 cylinders (holy CRAP-Found it)
#16
Originally Posted by Ted928
You may have one of the cams 180 degrees off from the crank. Verify that you have the valve timing of both banks phased properly with the crank. As you turn the crank over slowly in the correct direction, you should see the proper cylinderintake valve close followed by the rotor starting to lineup with its dist. cap electrode to enable firing. I suspect that the one bank is firing after the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke.
#17
Originally Posted by Shark Attack
Ok, this was the second time this is mentioned? How can this be? if all the marks line up how can it be off? One turn of the crank is one turn of the crank... if you are at the TDC mark and the cams are lined up on mark... how can it be off???? I dont get it
#18
Originally Posted by Garth S
You are correct: for this to be a factor, the only remote possibility I can think of is if one cam gear was put on bassackwards ..... so the little dimple was in front and the wide notch in back.
#19
Originally Posted by Shark Attack
Ok, this was the second time this is mentioned? How can this be? if all the marks line up how can it be off? One turn of the crank is one turn of the crank... if you are at the TDC mark and the cams are lined up on mark... how can it be off???? I dont get it
BTW, how did you confirm that 4 cylinders are not "running". You said that you had spark, fuel and compression. Did you start pulling plug wires while running and have no change in RPM? If thats the way you confirmed, I put my money on the cam being 180 deg. out.
Good luck. We are pulling for you to find this problem.
#21
Re-trace the steps here.
The car ran on 4 cyls when you got it, the timing belt was in bad state and the cam timing was off, both cams by 2 teeth each........correct?
This makes me suspect that the PO/mechanic obviously did a poor job of replacing the tbelt, screwed up the cam timing and somehow managed to wreck the belt. You have compression, spark and fuel so it leaves timing.
I'd triple check the cam timing by removing the cam covers while observing the firing order.
Are the sparks plugs wet on 5-8 cyls? Be careful of unburnt fuel in the engine and exhaust system.
The car ran on 4 cyls when you got it, the timing belt was in bad state and the cam timing was off, both cams by 2 teeth each........correct?
This makes me suspect that the PO/mechanic obviously did a poor job of replacing the tbelt, screwed up the cam timing and somehow managed to wreck the belt. You have compression, spark and fuel so it leaves timing.
I'd triple check the cam timing by removing the cam covers while observing the firing order.
Are the sparks plugs wet on 5-8 cyls? Be careful of unburnt fuel in the engine and exhaust system.
#22
Originally Posted by Fabio421
Yes, they are keyed. But the cam gears make two revolutions for every one revolution of the crank because of they are 1/2 the diameter of the grank gear. So it is possible to have one cam gear that is one complete revolution, or 180 degrees off.
BTW, how did you confirm that 4 cylinders are not "running". You said that you had spark, fuel and compression. Did you start pulling plug wires while running and have no change in RPM? If thats the way you confirmed, I put my money on the cam being 180 deg. out.
Good luck. We are pulling for you to find this problem.
BTW, how did you confirm that 4 cylinders are not "running". You said that you had spark, fuel and compression. Did you start pulling plug wires while running and have no change in RPM? If thats the way you confirmed, I put my money on the cam being 180 deg. out.
Good luck. We are pulling for you to find this problem.
If the gears are installed correctly and the three index marks line up on their respective indices, the motor is correctly timed.
However, I do agree that this is one unique problem .... wish i could see it in the flesh!
#23
Originally Posted by Fabio421
Yes, they are keyed. But the cam gears make two revolutions for every one revolution of the crank because of they are 1/2 the diameter of the grank gear. So it is possible to have one cam gear that is one complete revolution, or 180 degrees off.
BTW, how did you confirm that 4 cylinders are not "running". You said that you had spark, fuel and compression. Did you start pulling plug wires while running and have no change in RPM? If thats the way you confirmed, I put my money on the cam being 180 deg. out.
Good luck. We are pulling for you to find this problem.
BTW, how did you confirm that 4 cylinders are not "running". You said that you had spark, fuel and compression. Did you start pulling plug wires while running and have no change in RPM? If thats the way you confirmed, I put my money on the cam being 180 deg. out.
Good luck. We are pulling for you to find this problem.
You have to be joking on paragraph one.
Yes papragraph 2 is how i determined 5,6,7,8 are not running
I think you are going to lose your money
#24
Originally Posted by the flyin' scotsman
Re-trace the steps here.
The car ran on 4 cyls when you got it, the timing belt was in bad state and the cam timing was off, both cams by 2 teeth each........correct?
This makes me suspect that the PO/mechanic obviously did a poor job of replacing the tbelt, screwed up the cam timing and somehow managed to wreck the belt. You have compression, spark and fuel so it leaves timing.
I'd triple check the cam timing by removing the cam covers while observing the firing order.
Are the sparks plugs wet on 5-8 cyls? Be careful of unburnt fuel in the engine and exhaust system.
The car ran on 4 cyls when you got it, the timing belt was in bad state and the cam timing was off, both cams by 2 teeth each........correct?
This makes me suspect that the PO/mechanic obviously did a poor job of replacing the tbelt, screwed up the cam timing and somehow managed to wreck the belt. You have compression, spark and fuel so it leaves timing.
I'd triple check the cam timing by removing the cam covers while observing the firing order.
Are the sparks plugs wet on 5-8 cyls? Be careful of unburnt fuel in the engine and exhaust system.
Yes to #2 in a big way
Done this 3 times now on number 3. but hey whats one more time!
On number 4 I kinda did this in my own little sick way. I took the plenum off and held my hand over 4 and 5 intakes. 5 would suck than right away after 4 would suck.. thus the fire order goes 5-4.
#26
Originally Posted by Garth S
With due respect, No --- that is bassackwards: the cam gears (48 teeth) rotate at 1/2 the speed of the crank gear (24 teeth) such that the pistons stroke twice for each rotation of the cam = 4-stroke engine.
If the gears are installed correctly and the three index marks line up on their respective indices, the motor is correctly timed.
However, I do agree that this is one unique problem .... wish i could see it in the flesh!
If the gears are installed correctly and the three index marks line up on their respective indices, the motor is correctly timed.
However, I do agree that this is one unique problem .... wish i could see it in the flesh!
What if my dist was off 180? this could happen on that side as he talks about.....
here we are telling the guy he's full of BS and I think he may have a point
Im wrong, when that mark on that cam gear is on mark, that dist is at number one... regardless, Unless the dist has been pulled.. I better check that
Last edited by Shark Attack; 03-04-2007 at 11:59 AM.
#27
With the cam timing aboslutely confirmed I'd them move to the next timing..........ignition.
Physically follow each HT lead from the disti cap to the respective spark plug and ensure all's good. Inspect the rotor, cap and leads WYAI for cracks/ tracing.............replace if required.
Physically follow each HT lead from the disti cap to the respective spark plug and ensure all's good. Inspect the rotor, cap and leads WYAI for cracks/ tracing.............replace if required.
#29
First varify that the crank is on the right stroke. Pull the plugs and make sure that the pistons are following the firing order. When #1 gets close to tdc 3,7,2 should be following close behind.
Then check the left bank cam timming because thats where the distributor is timed off.
Are you getting raw fuel from the exhuast when it does run?
Is it a single rotor distributor or dual. Is there a chance it's the wrong dist?
Then check the left bank cam timming because thats where the distributor is timed off.
Are you getting raw fuel from the exhuast when it does run?
Is it a single rotor distributor or dual. Is there a chance it's the wrong dist?
#30
In the first post you said you have equal compression on all cyls so the timing of the crank to valves must be on given this, the next thing you have is fuel since you find fuel from the side with out fire then you mus have fuel, the one thing missing is spark I think that you should check the timing of the distributor to the engine . Try this remove the cap check the direction of rotation get the engine back to TDC then note the rotor position see if it lines up with the notch on the distributor housing, this should be in alignment then slowly turn the engine over by hand and verify that every wire is actually going to where the rotor is pointing, I hope this helps you find this.