RyanPerrella

it wasnt a personal attack. It was a simple point hombre.

There was no attack of dangler in there. Why are you so quick to jump on this. You dont like my opinion of Ford products, fine, dont tell me that was a personal attack though. I know Dangler comes from Ford backgrounds, hes told us many times.

Dangler, were you insulted by my post regarding my opinion of Ford engines in comparison to Porsche? If you were I appologize.

RyanPerrella

Tell me in my first post on the subject where there was a personal attack? You claim i attacked Dangler, I want you to quote me. I made no personal attack, I did attack ford though. And so what, THIS IS A PORSCHE FORUM! I hate Fords, does that offend you? There is NO attack whatsoever in my first post. Nor in any other post on this thread. (there are on other threads though)

danglerb

Wow, another parallel with Porsche.

Whats available, and what could be done are different questions, and I am asking what can be done, not whats available or off the shelf.

When I talked with one of the top custom cam guys he told me he was able to pick up 31 rwhp over the Euro S cam, which might be fun even if the low end sucked, but he is typically a person that prides himself on a wide power band. Its what engine builders expect out of cam guys these days. When I pressed for more detail his response was find some cores and we'll talk then.

RyanPerrella

Were you offended Danglerb?

Thats all i want to know? If so i appologise.

danglerb

Comparing the 5.0L 928 motor to the 2.6 911 is NOT apples to apples, the 911 had 20+ years of development cycles to refine the design, and I am taking a wild guess that despite being half the displacement it had a bit more than 117 fly wheel hp.

My question is still, is there room for improvement on the 928 Euro S cam?

Nobody likes noise added to a technical thread, but I am not the one to judge the merit of others added content.

I really never take anything posted personally, at least not very long. Not offended.

RyanPerrella

Thank you

My point to hottrodding up fords and Porsches is this,

you can look in any catalog and find 4 different companies selling rods for a chevy or ford, you can find 30 different intake manifolds, you can find 30 different cam configurations, on and on. This is not so in the Porsche world. They made how many million small blocks, how many million mustangs. They only made 60,000 928's in 17-18 years. There were probably all of 20,000 imported here in those 17-18 years. You jsut cant get the selection for parts. So when you say are there cams, yes there is always a hotter cam, but its going to be from a boutique supplier, who most likely just regrinds an old one, welds one up or whatever. How much money do you want to spend thats the question.

Honestly, your already looking for power over the 300ish the Euro S engine supposedly makes. Are you going to be happy with 300 from 240ish? Cause if 300 wont be enough I suggest you look for something different. But i suspect once you get a Euro S engine, if you do in fact buy one, you will be all over trying ways to find more power from it. I would be less apt to supercharge a 10.4 : 1 compression ratio engine, or whatever the Euro engine is. I think the US one is what, 9:1? If you get a Euro S engine, i would say your pretty much optimised right there. You can probably fine 20-30 HP but it will be the real expensive kind. if you think you'l want 350, look for a 4 valve S4 engine or later. You need to set a goal and shoot for it. You cant keep changing your destination midway through flight, you will never end up anywhere.

Will you be done when you get a Euro S engine, or what is your ultimate goal? Cause it dosent make sense to research how to get 300 HP when you really want 400. Get my point?

leperboy

Yes, you were insulting to him, in my opinion. I'm not defending him, though.
He's a big boy. I am asking, politely, for you to turn down the noise to signal ratio. It's in your power. But I see you won't, so never mind. Go get him, tiger.

As for Fords, I don't care for them much either. Love my Galaxie, am indifferent to the Falcon. I have never posted anything about them. I own two, but you seem to think that makes me a knee-jerk defender of them and that's what this is about.

Not at all. I just pointed out that in your haste to criticize dangler, you were wrong. Needlessly so.

And now I end my noise bit. I know when I can't win. I'm sorry you are taking even this so personally.

Still relaxed,
Matt

danglerb

If with a bit of research and persistence I can do something interesting, then maybe that is worth some extra expense. Giving the NA 16v envelope a nudge could be fun. Besides Sonny Bryant is just down the road a bit, maybe he does charity work sometimes?

I agree, stock Euro S should do the trick just fine, it all depends on what I find first, running complete motor, custom cam, lotto ticket, etc.

RyanPerrella

yeah US cams should be dirt cheap too so finding a pair to experiment on shouldnt take long to find and shouldnt cost to much for your starting blank.

danglerb

Good plan, thanks Sterling.

Cam swap has to be a bigger job than a normal TB, so it wouldn't be something I would do lightly.

Custom cam guys have some very good tools though for modeling what the cam should be like, and passing the Calif smog test is a sober reminder of keeping the driveability managed. Once the door is open maybe one of the track guys would want to see just how far the HP can go.

Building up a cam isn't my first choice. I think Eglin has had success, but I am working at some kind of billet core option first, maybe from one of the 944 sources as long as the lobes are totally unformed and round.

RyanPerrella

Leperboy,

Still waiting for you to quote me......

Jim bailey - 928 International

Ah ...."Once the door is open maybe one of the track guys would want to see just how far the HP can go." Mark Anderson raced the Euro engine for a few years, Greg Brown did a set of trick heads for his motors, he ran very custom cams and the whole thing made MAYBE 400 hp possibly 425 hp with thousands of dollars spent on the custom heads oversized nitrium filled valves etc. etc. . Bob Devore one of the founders of devek had a big modified 2 valve claimed like 750 HP as I recall. For cams just call Webcam in Riverside 951 369-7266.. Other than the turning the two rear seats into a transverse lounge chair, you have yet to express an original thought about a 928. Porsche 928 2 valve cams are very agressive because the size of the cam journals which you MUST slide the cam through limits overall lift only lets you play much with duration and indexing timing of valve opening and closing. It all comes back to Porsche designed the 928 engine to be for them a long stroke low RPM engine for better emissions and less noise.

scott863

I think this is an interesting question. The 928 powerband on my 3spd is great for twisty roads like Coldwater Canyon and Mullholland Drive in Los Angeles where I can keep it in first the entire time, and it has some real pull after 35mph or so. But, high rpms accelerate wear and put additional strain on my 26 year old engine. I'd trade horsepower up top for torque down low. My old CLK 430 had around 300# of torque in a car that weighed 1000# more than my 928. The rear end ratio is the same, but first gear must have been a far more aggressive one than mine, and my CLK could get to 60 in 6 seconds. Is stroking the best way to get torque out of these engines?

heinrich

...

danglerb

If the past isn't documented, it repeats. I do search for this stuff, but answers are conflicting, or just buried too deep. Sometimes I don't know enough to "see" the answer when I find it either.

Webcam was described to me as a place of last resort, otherwise I wouldn't be still looking.
.471/.432 250/236 232/220 537/538 European profile. Price per set. 05-471 $893.00 for a hard weld and regrind a pair.
But thats still just the Euro S, and if something a bit more aggressive is possible at the same or a small difference in cost, why not.

Since you know, why not just say so?

Pick a box and check one.

Yes, a better cam for what you want is ...
No, use the Euro S and get back to work on the recliner.

One little comment about "firm" shocks and your all cranky.