marton

Also true, but today a lot more of the different pills actually do something useful.
I guess you are not yet ready for Viagra, or have ulcers which can be cured today with a simple pill instead of a major operation?

Marton

zrated s4

If cost were no object I would have a last model year GTS (pure engineering statement by the boys at Weissach) and one - any model year to modify as I wished (pure personal statement of my tastes).

SharkSkin

Marton, point taken, but there is a lot more garbage out there. In a bad mood? Take a pill. Depressed? Take a pill. etc. etc.

Ever see the movie THX-1138? That's where we seem to be headed, with schools forcing parents to drug their kids, and so on.

Back on topic, I think that, like these drugs I'm railing about, some modifications can be considered preservation and some may not quite fit that category. I tried to do a quality job on my fan installation, below. Others have attached fans to the radiator with zip ties that run through the core. Which approach is preservation? Which would you consider an asset when looking at a used car?

V-Fib

Dave, your fan install looks "Factory" and anyone not knowing these cars would think so. While I did delete my Auxillary fan (I still have it ), I installed Devek Fans and shroud and people think it is factory because of the quality install. So I can see where Marton is coming from.

Mike Frye

Anthony,

I think the cars are making the decisions for us.

In a lot of cases, you've got low milers that can only be had for a high price, because they are low milers. These will most likely be preserved as close as possible to stock. The rest are going down in value (like mine) faster than a lead balloon and no amount of work is going to remove 200+k miles from the frame, so it's never ever going to be a sought after prize for anyone that's looking for that.

That said, the mods I'm doing are all going to be reversible (including the rear seat delete) and the original parts that can be saved, I'll save, just because that's what I'd want if I were the next owner. If I ever do sell, I would include all of the parts I have removed or replaced as well as the owner's manual, tools and spare which it didn't have when I got it, as well as a service history from the day I got it (such as it is).


My .02

zrated s4

It depends on one's ultimate goal. To preserve history or to tailor a car to one's personal taste. As an exagerated example: If you happened to be able to afford a Frank Lloyd Wright house would you want to restore it to its original state (most purchasers do), or would you want to update it and personalize it to your personal preferences (as at least one person in Arizona has done). In regards to potential extinction, cars shown at Pebble Beach are a testament to the fact that if restoration is desired, nothing is impossible. Not that I'm advocating restoration over modifying. I see it as a matter of preference - both valid. BTW my is shark is slightly modified.

danglerb

Many purists just haven't been properly tempted yet.

rickjaffe

it's hard to believe that any modern car that had 50,000 copies could have collector value in the lifetime of most people alive today. Not limited to porsche, I think the testsossa suffers from the same problem.

also, if something breaks, and there is some better technology available, on a 20 yr old 928, it doesn't seem to make sense to put the old in.

also, given that most of these cars, and cwon't have collector value; the real value and highest goal is to enjoy driving them; that argues for most modern, presumably better technology option than original equipment.

personal example: I have a 57 bentley; they're worth nothing in stock configuration and there were only maybe 2800 for the entire S1 series. Mine is a hot rod with a supercharged chevy 400 which is still worth nothing (in collector car terms) , So instead of a v-6 155 hp, I've got a pretty loud 500 or so hp, and it is an absolute blast to drive, and suprises the hell out of cars when I let the supercharger do its thing, which as the visa or mastercard commercial says is "priceless."

so for what it's worth from a non-928 owner, if you can afford it, modify the hell out of them, drive the hell out of them and enjoy, and let your accountant or the executor or your estate worry about it.

zrated s4

Rick,

I agree with you from a purely pragmatic standpoint that our cars will not likely become truely collectible in our life times, and that there is definitely far superior technology available today that when the cars were first manufactured. I do question the fact that the only way to derive pleasure from them is to squeeze every ounce of potential performance available given one's budget. For some, there is some pleasure to be derived from replacing old/worn/broken parts with brand new old stock parts. This obviously depends on the degree one values authenticity vs no-holds-barred performance. What ever the degree of modification one chooses our cars will always entertain.

BEN S.

bcdavis

I think that if you have a pristine 1979 car, or some special model, like a Wiessach, then yes, preserve it. If people ever start collecting these cars, it will be the original models they will be interested in. Maybe the first year of the s4, etc... Even if you look at cars of the 60's, it's only the rare and top-of the line cars that have high resale value. You don't see people paying top dollar for a vintage Pinto or Nova. They pay top dollar for a rare Boss 429 Mustang, '69 Stingray, etc... So yes, maybe a pristine GTS, or pristine 1979 may get top dollar one day. But I don't think the run of the mill 928s are going to have the same value. Mainly because most of them will be in pretty bad shape, etc... Also, some of you *will* keep your cars stock. In fact, I would guess that 90% have only done minor mods. RMB, etc. Only 10% have really done major mods, like superchargers, body kits, etc... So there will be plenty of stock 928s out there in the future. They may start being worth more eventually. But don't let that prevent you from making your car better. Improve it. There is a lot of cool stuff on the market, that can make your car handle better, give it more power, etc... Why run around on tiny stock wheels, and crappy tires, when you can lower the car, put on wide wheels, better rubber, and have a better handling car? If you can open up the exhaust, and make it run better, why not?

Fogey1

Anthony,

OT but ... Got pix & info on the Bentley?

BKiller

While on the subject of stock or modify, since the electrical system seems to be the biggest problem with these cars, is anyone just pulling all the non-engine management electrical and replacing it all with a simple Painless Wiring' system? Seems like that would eliminate a ton of headaches...

Cliff Ruckstuhl

For me it is kind of simple, we have super cars plain and simple. My super car is an 87 with 87 specs and I am sure some of these new Acura's and VW and Hondas can clean my clock from a stand still. I know the cars are not drag cars and I know ther element is high way speeds. To bring my car up to todays specs it means dropping in a Super Charger now the car will be simply amazing with amazing go power. I will have a car that will kill cars now costing 4 times the money I have in mine. Where can we get a timeless design with over 400 rwhp that can do what we want for under $18K? Nice S4 are selling in the $12K range and Super Charger kits are selling for $5500.00. Now we have world class speed and world class looks and cars that give new $60K Vettes a run for ther money. So for me keeping the car stock is not part of my plans, PO did just this my car was as stock as when he bought it. Now I have dropped in new wheels new sound system new exhaust sytem and am going to have a better performing car then when it was stock.

Cliff 87 S 4

heinrich

On a purely off-topic note Dave I FULLY agree. I lost my daughter as you know in a custody battle recently. Someone had the audacity to tell me because I was depressed, I should get on meds. My response, other than go f___ yourself, was "I lost my child. Would you not expect me to be depressed?"

rickjaffe

that's my point: if something breaks and there's a better more modern solution that solves a known or possible problem, why go with the old.

I upgraded the braking system on my vette. it had a single chamber master cylinder. Should I have found a new old stock one or a much safer dual chamber? no question. Put in the then stock vaccum power brakes or hydatec hydraulic racing brakes. Guess what I did? car now brakes like a race car (but drives like a bucket of bolts like all old vetts do, but that's another story)

I suppose if it were a 427 worth 100k plus and I was showing it on the concurs curcuit and I didn't use it as a daily driver (would have to be crazy or really rich or both to do that), maybe old stock. but on a car which is actually driven rather than trailered; seems like the only rational play is to make it better, especially if the particular part needs attention. same thing with ferrari and electrical stuff, and sounds like the porsche has similar electrical gremlins and inadequate electrical components).

there are all kinds of guys out there, professionals and hobbyists who see a weakness in their passion car's system, work out a better fix, and bring it to market. Whenever I can, and since I only have highly imperfect drivers, I like to support the guys with the talent and initiative who do these improvements. Anyway much more fun than having a trailer queen, moving it around from show to show. My opinion anyway.

per a request, if it doesn't violate any forum rules, I will post a picture of my bentley hot rod (two tone; 91 mustang dark emerald green metallic on fenders doors etc, opalesent white on hood, roof trunk etc; right hand drive, english license plates (haven't been stopped yet). cool car, (not for sale).