camboinc

Well- ****! The motor in my newly purchased 928 needs to come out. I finally found a mechanic I could trust and here is what he found- bad noises coming from three places:
1. timing belt is off so there is some noise in the upper right part of the motor
2. crank bearing or rod bearing noise
3. noise from the rear of the motor- possible TBF

So-
as I have mentioned, Im not inclined to do the work myself. He is going to pull the motor for me and at the moment, there is a guy in Ann Arbor, MI that he wants to involve. Ill get input from him on whether to perform the surgery on my motor or find another motor and use that.

If anyone can help me find a fairly complete motor, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, suggestions on a WYAI list when the motor is out.

What a crappy way to enter the 928 kingdom. Again, thank god I have a well running 79 930.

AO

Dude! That totally sucks! I'm speechless.

AO

BTW, who an Ann Arbor is doing the work? If it's EuroTech, put a padlock on your bank account!

Mike Simard

There's German Auto Dismantlers in Georgia, I believe they have a complete 87 engine and that may be the easiest fix if it does indeed need an engine. Is it really that bad? Did it lose oil pressure or something catostrophic? To hear distinct noises at the head, con rod and elsewhere is odd unless someone drove it wide open several minutes after losing oil.

camboinc

Andrew,
yes it does suck the big one! Ill find out the guys name- dont think he is a retail repair shop but the guys looking at it now (Curts service in Oak Park) are super cool and non gouging fellows.

Mike,
I never drove the car with low or no oil pressure. I put about 800 miles on the car driving it back from KC, MO. 300 miles into the drive a small ticking noise appeared. got worse from there. at any rate, ya got a number or contact of the GA guys?

thanks...

Mike Simard

(866) 356-2996. Buying a complete engine and just slapping it in would be a good way to go, you're going to have the pain of paying for a repair anyway, rebuilding your current engine would just drag out the time. You could always sell your current engine to someone that wants a sleeved/stroker project motor.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Hold that engine removal FIRST have them check the end play of the crankshaft ,have them remove the oil filter and tin snip it open and pan for gold unroll the paper to see what is in the filter. Drain the oil and see if it looks like metal flake paint ..... The early S-4 engines used a plastic plug to block an oil galley when the shorter camshafts were used that plug often blows out and bleeds of the oil supply to the lifters that gives you lifter noise. How far off is the cam timing ? one tooth two ? Maybe do a compression test to see how that is. Point is you need more information before you buy into an engine replacement. You could even have a broken camshaft which can be fixed with the engine in the car.

SwayBar

This is the best-way to go, no doubt.

But before doing all of that, I would confirm that the motor is truly dead. A 'ticking noise' could be many things which are minor.

AO

Brian-
Listen to Jim Bailey. He knows what he's talking about.

camboinc

Jim,

i pulled the oil filter about two weeks ago and found no metal to speak of (1 tiny flake of copper every 10 folds or so on the filter. all of it wouldnt add up to be a grain. i have a bit more info to clarify my situation. my mechanic has potentially identified the upper engine sound to be the timing chain tensioner. they are looking to get another guy's advice Tim Pogg (Rennstat in Ann Arbor). My guy has not said to pull the motor yet. He wants Tim to take a listen. At that point I am going to have them open the bell housing and check the torque tube and flex plate. It just sounds like there is more going on even though I have no metal in the oil. Didnt mean to jump the gun. With the way things have progressed, Im just not very optimistic. So... Thursday I will provide an update on the prognosis. Til then just $150.00 for the diagnosis. Hell, the other guys in town that have looked at the car gave me zilch to go on and comments like "Lets start with the TB WP for 3k and go from there..." Yeah right!

Thanks guys

BC

There is an 89 engine on ebay for 4k. Or at least there was.

ROG100

Brian,
Just as Andrew said listen to Jim and do everything he suggests.
I feel you are a long way from having to pull the engine.
Call Jim and talk it through with him.

I have a complete S4 engine if you get stuck.

bkingdon

I am just going through my first (and last?) 1987 S4 engine rebuild and have a couple of thoughts.

You mentioned copper particles.
I have my engine in tiny pieces and the only copper I have found is the plating on the bearing shells underneath the wear surface. You should not expect to see this unless there has been a bearing failure. I believe all bearing shells (mains and rods) have this under plating layer.

You did not say if you have 5 speed or auto, but if it is auto you may have found the dreaded thrust bearing failure.

I think the attachment shows what I have seen!!!!

Pay attention to the crankshaft end float - if it is greater than spec you are going down the TBF path.

Good luck,

Brian.

Next time I will find out how to attach a 413k file - keep waiting....

Big Dave

Cam timing should be easy to check using the TB cover holes...make sure that the cam gear marks still line up with the crank at TDC.

I agree with Jim Bailey...you're still a long way from having to pull the engine.

camboinc

thanks for the input guys. i will make sure to call you Jim once I inspect the flex plate. then i can move to the next step whatever that is. dave, when im at TDC, should the cam gear mark be visible through one or both TB cover holes? roger, again, you are the man. Brian, regarding the copper in my filter. There were maybe 10 flakes visible in the entire filter when i ripped it open. i was told by a buddy of mine that there was not enough metal to be concerned. anyone else agree or disagree?

just for the record, the sound has progressed to much worse than the ticking noise that it started as about 300 miles into my 928 ownership. its now a much harder and more pronounced knocking sound at engine speed. its not lifter noise, its not injector noise. it is bad, bad, im not at all well noise. more rod like knocking to me but what the hell do i know?