Starting stand-alone install on '86 4.7
09-04-2006, 02:19 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Starting stand-alone install on '86 4.7 [Update, car is running!]
This car is equipped with MAF and I'm going to toss the original FI system out and install VEMS Genboard on it. Ignition is going to be Siemens COPs and ign.+fuel are going to be sequential (not full, no cam sync).
Some questions though.
Does anyone has stock ignition map for that 4.7 so that I could get the car running ok from the start (mainly worrying about head gasket).
Fuel map is not a problem because VEMS has integrated wideband and EGT onboard and I can tune drivable fuel map in half an hour.
Also, what crank wheel this engine uses? Is it VR sensor that counts rpm from the starter ring + one VR sensor for the position or is it missing tooth wheel like 944 S2? If it's the first choice then I have to install a trigger wheel.
TIA, Raceboy.
Some questions though.
Does anyone has stock ignition map for that 4.7 so that I could get the car running ok from the start (mainly worrying about head gasket).
Fuel map is not a problem because VEMS has integrated wideband and EGT onboard and I can tune drivable fuel map in half an hour.
Also, what crank wheel this engine uses? Is it VR sensor that counts rpm from the starter ring + one VR sensor for the position or is it missing tooth wheel like 944 S2? If it's the first choice then I have to install a trigger wheel.
TIA, Raceboy.
Last edited by Raceboy; 10-04-2006 at 10:22 AM. Reason: Car is running and pics inlcuded
09-04-2006, 02:46 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Hi 
Wow you have no idea what you are asking for lol...
The ONLY person I know who MIGHT know is John Speake...as I think hes just starting to investigate the mapping on the 16 valve engines...
Do A search on his name and you will see what I mean...
All the best Brett
PORSCHE 928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH.K&N.NITROUS KIT 150 HP.
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR - Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk
Wow you have no idea what you are asking for lol...
The ONLY person I know who MIGHT know is John Speake...as I think hes just starting to investigate the mapping on the 16 valve engines...
Do A search on his name and you will see what I mean...
All the best Brett
PORSCHE 928 S2 AUTO V8 4.7 LTR 1986 IRIS METALLIC BLUE WITH X-PIPES ,RMB ,PROMAX CHIPS, KICKDOWN SWITCH.K&N.NITROUS KIT 150 HP.
PCGB UK 928 FORUM MODERATOR - Email managingdirector@pchealthcare.co.uk
09-04-2006, 03:11 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Did a quick search but not with his name Thanks for that hint.
BTW, VEMS is able to use direct ignition w/ 8 COPs without any additional equipment, hence the choice.
Thanks for that hint.BTW, VEMS is able to use direct ignition w/ 8 COPs without any additional equipment, hence the choice.
09-04-2006, 05:05 PM
#5
The VEMS map would be one from a Megasquirt, and I don't have my MSII car going yet, and it will be a good long while probably before I do. If you search on the ms boards, there may be an old post from a guy that did only fuel on a 78 motor, but each tune is so different, it just needs to be done. There are places on the MS site you can get basic instructions as to how to parse out a startable map.
I thought VEMS would be able to use any number trigger wheel? Porsche used a 60-2, as well as a much more populated wheel, I forget how many teeth.
It wouldn'y really be that hard to make a cam synch - such that it would run off the place where the distributor no longer is. Then you could jave full sequential.
I thought VEMS would be able to use any number trigger wheel? Porsche used a 60-2, as well as a much more populated wheel, I forget how many teeth.
It wouldn'y really be that hard to make a cam synch - such that it would run off the place where the distributor no longer is. Then you could jave full sequential.
09-04-2006, 05:10 PM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
It can use whatever trigger wheel is available, just good to know if I can utilize stock one. If it's 60-2, then it's one of the best one that's available.
I just need a good starting map, of course tuning has to be done finally on the dyno.
VEMS has only one similarity with MS: that's Megatune and even that is very much more sophisticated that MS variant.
Thank you for the information
I just need a good starting map, of course tuning has to be done finally on the dyno.
VEMS has only one similarity with MS: that's Megatune and even that is very much more sophisticated that MS variant.
Thank you for the information
09-04-2006, 05:48 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
You will easily find my posts with the user name John Speake.....
The 86 flywheel has 100 teeth, well sort of there's one missing tooth and another is wider than the others, IIRC.
This usually causes problems with aftermarket systems...
The 86 flywheel has 100 teeth, well sort of there's one missing tooth and another is wider than the others, IIRC.
This usually causes problems with aftermarket systems...
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09-06-2006, 06:18 AM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Ok, swede who installed MS on his 4.5 had fuel-only setup, so no go.
Does anyone has something to share? It doesn't have to be exactly Megatune config file or something, maybe just couple of rpm x load x advance values from some other management.....
?
Does anyone has something to share? It doesn't have to be exactly Megatune config file or something, maybe just couple of rpm x load x advance values from some other management.....
?
09-06-2006, 09:31 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
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Beautiful project car there, raceboy. Wish I could help but I'm out of my depth on this one, so I'll sit back and listen. You're going to be pioneering some new territory I think.
09-12-2006, 09:39 AM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Ok guys, started install today and I saw two triggers on the bellhousing (it's automatic if I didn't mention it before). one is for the brain box but other is just there hanging loose and has simple three-pole connector (not injector-type). My guess is that it's for diagnostics?
Ok, nice, but from PET I saw that the second tooth wheel has just one missing tooth and nothing more, could someone confirm this?
Also, what type is it? VR (variable reluctance) or HALL?
TIA, Raceboy
Ok, nice, but from PET I saw that the second tooth wheel has just one missing tooth and nothing more, could someone confirm this?
Also, what type is it? VR (variable reluctance) or HALL?
TIA, Raceboy
09-12-2006, 10:41 AM
#12
Nordschleife Master
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The second sensor is diagnostic. IIRC, it senses one (or maybe all) of the locating pins for the clutch on a 5-speed. It may sense the flexplate bolts on an auto, but I'm not sure.
09-12-2006, 10:45 AM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
If the diagnostic senses at least four pins/bolts it will be enough, more wouldn't hurt.
But, on automatic cars, what kind of trigger wheel does the main trigger have? is it like John Speake said, a 100teeth, 1 is missing and another is wider than others?
But, on automatic cars, what kind of trigger wheel does the main trigger have? is it like John Speake said, a 100teeth, 1 is missing and another is wider than others?
09-12-2006, 10:51 AM
#14
Nordschleife Master
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If I'm right about the diagnostic sensing the locating pins or flexplate bolts, there are only 3.
I don't know the number of teeth, but John is most likely correct. You can see the missing on in this pic. If you have the patience, maybe you can count the teeth and look for a fat one.
I don't know the number of teeth, but John is most likely correct. You can see the missing on in this pic. If you have the patience, maybe you can count the teeth and look for a fat one.
09-12-2006, 10:59 AM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks for the clarification, i'll check the signal directly with an oscilloscope. If it has more trigger events than one per cylinder, I probably will mount 60-2 wheel to the crank pulley.