16v 5.0L hybrid?
09-03-2006, 04:19 PM
#1
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16v 5.0L hybrid?
ok, lets say I get my hands on a set of 16v euro heads, from an m28/12, and an S4 5.0L bottom end, complete with crank and pistons.
can I make that work? will I need different pistons? and can I fit the 16v heads to an S4 bottom end?
I'm looking for a low budget winter project, will this be worth the hassle?
mm
can I make that work? will I need different pistons? and can I fit the 16v heads to an S4 bottom end?
I'm looking for a low budget winter project, will this be worth the hassle?
mm
09-03-2006, 04:39 PM
#2
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You'll have to notch the pistons for the 2V heads and will end up with low compression ratio. IMO, you'd be better off just installing an S4 engine if you want a 5L.
09-03-2006, 08:11 PM
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Definitely won't be a low compression motor.
You will want the Euro S cams as well for the most benefit.
You can get 300+ rear wheel horsepower with that setup.
You will want the Euro S cams as well for the most benefit.
You can get 300+ rear wheel horsepower with that setup.
09-03-2006, 08:27 PM
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The compression will be a bit low using the S4 pistons vs. pistons from an 85/86 US 32V motor.
The S4 have a deeper dish than the early US 32V motor. I never did the actual calculations.
Yes, you need to notch the pistons for the 2V heads.
The S4 have a deeper dish than the early US 32V motor. I never did the actual calculations.
Yes, you need to notch the pistons for the 2V heads.
09-03-2006, 08:31 PM
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Someone should know this better than I do - since no one else has mentioned it....
It depends on what 5.0 engine you start with. IIRC 16V heads on an 85-86 engine will be a super high compression motor - 12:1 or so. With an S4 bottom end somewhere around 8:1 if everything is left stock, using US heads. Euro heads will be slightly higher compression.
I will be dropping a 5.0 S4 lower end into my car with a supercharger. The 8:1 compression will allow me to run 15psi with an intercooler.
This requires changing everything, like the harness. Some of us like sticking wth the simple 16V valve train. I'll have my 81 over 400rwhp with the stock 4.5 liter pretty easily - upgrading 500cc's and lowering the compression will allow me to push it a bit more.
It depends on what 5.0 engine you start with. IIRC 16V heads on an 85-86 engine will be a super high compression motor - 12:1 or so. With an S4 bottom end somewhere around 8:1 if everything is left stock, using US heads. Euro heads will be slightly higher compression.
I will be dropping a 5.0 S4 lower end into my car with a supercharger. The 8:1 compression will allow me to run 15psi with an intercooler.
Originally Posted by FlyingDog
IMO, you'd be better off just installing an S4 engine if you want a 5L.
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09-03-2006, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by John Veninger
85/86 US pistons on a 16V EuroS head gives a compression just under 11.
He mentioned it was an S4 bottom.
He mentioned it was an S4 bottom.
09-03-2006, 09:55 PM
#9
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That sounds like my motor.
I have a 1988 S4 block, but a 16v top end. I did a ground-up rebuild, so installing the correct 16v pistons was easy.
Depending on your chosen fuel system (K Jet, L-Jet or LHJ-Jet) you may have to make locating tabs to support the intake shoe. I had to for K-Jet. Other than that, the 5.0 liter bottom end does fine under the 4.7L 16v top. Be sure upi up-date to the newer, larger belt tensioner bolt and pivoit so you do not bend it. The old ones weere too small, bent, then you loose your belt tension.
AJ and I have been changing pulleys and tweaking fuel all day on this motor in my car. It has 460 miles on it now, and has been written up in the thread called "Crankshaft Scrapers at Road America" elsewhere here in the 928 forum.
The best we could fuel today with modified K-Jet (CIS) was 11.5 pounds of boost at 6,000 rpm, and we were able to supply enough fuel to that to 12.0:1 A/F ratio.
The engine is bored to about 5.1 Liter, steel sleeved, and running forged pistons of course. CR is about 8.5:1
This motor has larger fuel lines than most from he fuel distributer to the injectors, a modified fuel distributer, and a modified WUR. It is equipped with a 9th injector system that is boost actuated, but we have shut it off after finding that with the mods to the WUR and Fuel Distributer, we don't need it.
I hope to dyno it this coming week.
Pictures of this motor can bee seen on the thread called " Race Engine Installed, with Pics "
I have a 1988 S4 block, but a 16v top end. I did a ground-up rebuild, so installing the correct 16v pistons was easy.
Depending on your chosen fuel system (K Jet, L-Jet or LHJ-Jet) you may have to make locating tabs to support the intake shoe. I had to for K-Jet. Other than that, the 5.0 liter bottom end does fine under the 4.7L 16v top. Be sure upi up-date to the newer, larger belt tensioner bolt and pivoit so you do not bend it. The old ones weere too small, bent, then you loose your belt tension.
AJ and I have been changing pulleys and tweaking fuel all day on this motor in my car. It has 460 miles on it now, and has been written up in the thread called "Crankshaft Scrapers at Road America" elsewhere here in the 928 forum.
The best we could fuel today with modified K-Jet (CIS) was 11.5 pounds of boost at 6,000 rpm, and we were able to supply enough fuel to that to 12.0:1 A/F ratio.
The engine is bored to about 5.1 Liter, steel sleeved, and running forged pistons of course. CR is about 8.5:1
This motor has larger fuel lines than most from he fuel distributer to the injectors, a modified fuel distributer, and a modified WUR. It is equipped with a 9th injector system that is boost actuated, but we have shut it off after finding that with the mods to the WUR and Fuel Distributer, we don't need it.
I hope to dyno it this coming week.
Pictures of this motor can bee seen on the thread called " Race Engine Installed, with Pics "
09-04-2006, 04:07 AM
#10
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my part euro was a 5 liter 85/86 bottom end, notched for euro 82 two valve and the entire euro intake, right up to and including the Throttle body. then, i hogged out the "U" from my US, which may or may not be what you are matching it too as far as fuel management.
If CIS, its then the 80-83 intake system if its Ljet, you need the 84-85 euro intake system.
compression was near 10:1 on my 5 liter part euro . with the difference being the pistons on an S4 bottom end, it drops to near 8.5 as was said.
MK
If CIS, its then the 80-83 intake system if its Ljet, you need the 84-85 euro intake system.
compression was near 10:1 on my 5 liter part euro . with the difference being the pistons on an S4 bottom end, it drops to near 8.5 as was said.
MK
09-04-2006, 03:20 PM
#11
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I was thinking using 80-83 heads, intake and k-jet. The S4 short block will give me a CR of 8:1, which is too low for NA. ( And I'm not planning for supercharging at the moment.) So I will have to get US S3 pistons, and have them notched for the two valves. Basically what mark k did.
Mark: did you dyno yours?
The guy selling the short block is asking a considerable amount, and adding a set of new/reworked pistons to that may make the total too steep for me. And the variables too many (complexity too).
Whats the going price for a 85/86 US 5.0L short block these days?
Or a set of pistons?
MM
Mark: did you dyno yours?
The guy selling the short block is asking a considerable amount, and adding a set of new/reworked pistons to that may make the total too steep for me. And the variables too many (complexity too).
Whats the going price for a 85/86 US 5.0L short block these days?
Or a set of pistons?
MM
Last edited by gruffalo; 09-04-2006 at 04:55 PM.
09-04-2006, 07:30 PM
#13
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Send thick walled US 32V block to me. I can give you 130k km's driven '87 S4 tolerance group 1 squirter block in exchange. I might have cheap shipping option from Kalifornia to Finland also. Will take a while but should be cheap. 
09-05-2006, 12:06 AM
#14
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shave the heads and you could even have a non interferance 5 liter! 
my 5 liter, US Ljet (with AFM) 82 euro cams, 85 euro intake, 83 heads, and 5 liter 85 block put down 293hp first dyno. a year later, down to 275ish, but with equal length headers, back up to 285rwhp.
Mk
my 5 liter, US Ljet (with AFM) 82 euro cams, 85 euro intake, 83 heads, and 5 liter 85 block put down 293hp first dyno. a year later, down to 275ish, but with equal length headers, back up to 285rwhp.
Mk
Originally Posted by gruffalo
I was thinking using 80-83 heads, intake and k-jet. The S4 short block will give me a CR of 8:1, which is too low for NA. ( And I'm not planning for supercharging at the moment.) So I will have to get US S3 pistons, and have them notched for the two valves. Basically what mark k did.
Mark: did you dyno yours?
The guy selling the short block is asking a considerable amount, and adding a set of new/reworked pistons to that may make the total too steep for me. And the variables too many (complexity too).
Whats the going price for a 85/86 US 5.0L short block these days?
Or a set of pistons?
MM
Mark: did you dyno yours?
The guy selling the short block is asking a considerable amount, and adding a set of new/reworked pistons to that may make the total too steep for me. And the variables too many (complexity too).
Whats the going price for a 85/86 US 5.0L short block these days?
Or a set of pistons?
MM
