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After talking with some friends that work on the GT350 at Ford I would NOT recommend trying to put a flat plane crank in a 928. They have had massive amounts of problems with vibration. Like the accessory drive falling apart and starters breaking off the block. It set the development 1 year back. I guess that's why Ferrari V8s are 4L size...
In 1992 Audi also twisted a stock 90* forged crank blank to make a 180* crank for the V8q DTM car. I think it spun to about 9000rpm and made 500hp from 3.6L. It was banned part way through the season and they left the series.
I think a lot of cars sound great at 6600rpm, like my motor! but not that impressive down lower at near 4000rpm. I just drove an F1355 and I think they sound great at any RPM. a little like a high strung 4 banger motorcycle. very smooth and a higher pitch sound to them.
anyway, is there a firing order that could be involved too? or do all flat crank engines have the same firing order?
anyway, when I pass a ferarri , I always roll down the window to listen to the song. you have to be a freak to not like that sound, even at cruise.
maybe I like model airplane noises.
Here is a youtube video of my 1986 Porsche 928 with a Magnaflow+ Autothority chip. At idle it sounds like an American V8 in higher RPM sounds almost like a Ferrari. Sorry the video is not very good and there was some wind noise. Porsche 928 32valve 5speed: https://youtu.be/MWhyqErwlaA
Last edited by NIACAL4NIA; 03-12-2015 at 02:46 PM.
simply stated the flat crank makes it two four cylinder engines with all the vibration typical of any in line 4 ( why Porsche needed a Mitsubishi designed balance shaft on the 944) .
The Ferrari sound is just the smoothness of two four cylinder engines in a duet. they are slightly out of phase due to the angle of the V either 60 or 90 degrees. That too probably impacts the sound somewhat.
Most reports I have read show little differences in overall power just sound....the Maserati using the Ferrari based V-8 I believe was NOT done with a flat plane crank primarily so that it does not sound like a Ferrari
Here is a youtube video of my 1986 Porsche 928 with a Magnaflow+ Autothority chip. At idle it sounds like a American V8 in higher RPM sounds almost like a Ferrari. Sorry the video is not very good and there was some wind noise. Porsche 928 32valve 5speed: https://youtu.be/MWhyqErwlaA
Here is what a 928 sounds like at 6600rpm on the track from in and out of the car
simply stated the flat crank makes it two four cylinder engines with all the vibration typical of any in line 4 ( why Porsche needed a Mitsubishi designed balance shaft on the 944) .
The Ferrari sound is just the smoothness of two four cylinder engines in a duet. they are slightly out of phase due to the angle of the V either 60 or 90 degrees. That too probably impacts the sound somewhat.
Most reports I have read show little differences in overall power just sound....the Maserati using the Ferrari based V-8 I believe was NOT done with a flat plane crank primarily so that it does not sound like a Ferrari
I think its a bore and stroke thing, or maybe the valve set up, cam timing, and flat crank. I dont think the maserati engine is that close to the ferrari
Here is a good descriptions of why the ferrari sounds the way it does.. mainly the flat crank, but also the bore and stroke... even though the mustang is now a flat crank, it still sounds low and rumbly. why?? probalby due to the bore and stroke.. dont really know. the ferarri engine at 4.2 liter is near the same as the maserati at 80mm and 91mm stroke and bore. amazingly, the ferrai 458, which is a 4.5liter, puts out near 550hp. the engine below is a maserati vs the ferrari below it, with the flat crank too. the 5 valve head is the ferrari 360, as is the block and crank pic.
Years of production: 2003-
V8-cyl @ 90° 4244 cc engine
4OHC with four valves per cylinder
Bore 92mm and stroke 80mm
Compression ratio 11.1:1
Power output 400bhp @ 7000 rpm
Induction system by Bosch Motronic ME7.1 electronic injection/ ignition system
the mustang flat crank engine:
o named because its four connecting-rod journals are spaced 180° apart, the shaft appears “flat” in a single plane when viewed head-on. The arrangement generally does away with the large counterweights used in the typical 90° "cross plane" layout which helps reduce crankshaft mass and enables the engine to rev more freely. The new Ford spins to a heady 8000 rpm before fuel cut-off, according to Nair, and has another 250 rpm of safe headroom. This from mildly oversquare 94 x 92.7-mm bore and stroke dimensions.
Looks like the main sound difference could be that the 5 liter mustang vs the 4.2 or 4.5 liter ferrari has a HUGE stroker crank that might make a sound diff, even though the RPM can get to 8000 on the mustang.
Last edited by mark kibort; 03-12-2015 at 02:53 PM.
simply research Ferrari f136 engines.....it is very clear that they used a common block and different cranks... But nice pictures
i just showed the two different blocks for the Ferrari 360 vs the Maserati 4.2 v8]
I would assume the 458 4.5 litre is a variant from the 360 and 430.
Is the ferrari F136 engine the same as any of the Maseratis?
edit:: bad assumption... yes you are absolutely right, in 2004, the 430 and later 458 started using that same block,.... but before hand, even though maserati's engines are made by Ferrari, it didn't mean Ferrari had them in the prior cars as shown by that pic of the 360 block
so, as you said, the reason the ferrari makes that song , is due to the flat plane crank, because the maseratis sound nothing like the ferrari. but then, why does the flat plane crank mustang sound SO different??????? square bore and stroke? exhaust?
Last edited by mark kibort; 03-12-2015 at 03:17 PM.
360 and 430 are totally different engines. 360 was last Ferrari V8 to use belts and 430 first to use chains. Maserati used that chain engine first already in 2002. It's of course Ferrari design for Ferrari and was just handy to have it around and first test it in 4200 GT.
simply stated the flat crank makes it two four cylinder engines with all the vibration typical of any in line 4 ( why Porsche needed a Mitsubishi designed balance shaft on the 944) .
The Ferrari sound is just the smoothness of two four cylinder engines in a duet. they are slightly out of phase due to the angle of the V either 60 or 90 degrees. That too probably impacts the sound somewhat.
Most reports I have read show little differences in overall power just sound....the Maserati using the Ferrari based V-8 I believe was NOT done with a flat plane crank primarily so that it does not sound like a Ferrari
Then why does an older Alfa Romeo 4 cylinder sound like a baby Ferrari and not like a Mazda or Toyota?
12-01-2014, 11:51 AM
