Kevin in Atlanta

You have PEMS, so the only way is via a Sharktuner.

pantera928

Kevin\
I have another set of ECUs with the Murf stage 3 chips in them. Can I see codes with them installed?

Kevin in Atlanta

Spanner or TheoJ's tool will work with them. But, you need the correct connector - that I don't have.

SeanR

Are your connectors cracking or any insulation coming off the wires to the knock sensors? If you can say yes, then they are toast and you will need to remove the intake for replacement.

A set of factory brains can be connected up to a KTS 300 (hammer) or theo's tool. Since you have PEMS hooking up the sharktuner is the only way. Can't say one way or the other on Tim's chips.

Bulvot

Actually, just because the connector is crumbling doesn't mean that the knock sensor is bad. Another local 928 owner had his connector come apart. He replaced the connector and the knock sensor works fine. Confirmed with a SharkTuner. No intake removal was necessary.

Mrmerlin

FWIW this is from a mechanics perspective,
just because you have repaired a bad connector on a wear item doesnt mean its fixed for good,
this thinking goes for the CPS the Hall and Knock sensors as well as the other things listed
( 87 on cars) (and the TPS short cable and TPS 85/85 cars) (78/83 green wire)

NOTE once the insulation and or connector housing has deteriorated this leaves the wires inside open to any elements,
this will damage the wires ability to send the proper signals to the computers.

A smarter way to approach this is to say if the integrity of any one these electrical components is in question,
then it would be smart to replace all of them.

NOTE only use Bosch components, this is not a place to cut corners .
the cost cutting results can lead to expensive towing bills and possible damage to the computers.

Bulvot

Stan, I'm familiar with your scorched earth approach to repairs. But, sometimes, a broken connector just needs a new connector and there is no damage to the wires due to exposure to elements or other potential issues. Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

pantera928

Or a spade connector! LOL

Bulvot

Lol, touché

Mrmerlin

When someone brings me a car that they want to run properly adding a connector end to a sensor that might be 15 to 30 years old and then hoping for the best is not why I get paid

I put these responses on here so in 10 years when some new owner reads these posts and thinks hey I can do that and then hope for the best because some one else did it.

The reality is that they are trying to bandaid an old part in the hopes that they can continue to use the car

You have to realize suggesting things like this could cause major issues

These parts are not lifetime use they should be replaced when one or more of these components show wear as a service protocol.
NOTE renewing them will increase the chances of proper operation without having to go back and retrace your steps. or get towed home

Bulvot

You're entitled to your opinion.

pantera928

Well gentlemen, FWIW. I am removing the intake and planning to replace anything and everything that could cause me to have to do the job twice.
Thanks to all

FredR

There are two ways to approach a problem- the correct way and an expedient way. The correct way should give a "lifetime fix". In the case of knock sensors I reckon the lifetime factor is 10 years or maybe even 15 years. Do the inlet manifold, do it correctly and you will spend a bunch of money and then you can feel at ease that you are not likely to need to go in there for another 15 years. With knock sensors the harness connectors drop to pieces- happened to me. I did not want to pull the inlet manifold at that moment in time so after trashing what was left of the connector I took the spades, put them into the correct female terminals on the connector and filled it in with RTV, let it set and then taped it up with self vulcanising tape. The bodge worked great, ST2 told me the thing was good to go and it was still working perfectly two years later when i next pulled the inlet manifold and replaced them both with the ISV, flappy actuator and my custom breather upgrade project- job done!

Not difficult to see why our professionals are resistant to such bodges but similarly it should also be understood that sometimes such fixes are priceless for their utility if it buys time and is easy to implement. Took me 15 minutes to temporarily fix the problem connector at naff all cost and it bought me over two years of service so very valuable indeed. Had it not worked I would have bit the bullet and pulled the manifold knowing it would take me at least 4 hours to get the thing off, do that task and then replace it but of course I do the job myself.

pantera928

Well put Fred R. When I turned a wrench for a living, I would never have done just the connector repair as I did not want come backs for more issues but for my own stull, I do as I like or as the situation needs sometimes just to get things going.

hacker-pschorr

+1
Anyone getting paid to work on cars should have the resources to properly test things they are selling the customer a job on. I say should only because in some cases like with Ferrari's, the cost of the factory diagnostic equipment is astronomical. We are so lucky to have people like John Speake making products like the Shark Tuner.

If a 928 comes in with a working TPS, Flappy, no signs of vacuum leaks etc... and the non functioning knock sensor has a busted up connector..... it's unethical to not at least offer the customer the connector replacement job. It takes no time at all to bridge that connection to test if the knock sensor is responding to the diagnostic equipment.

If it works, explain the situation to the customer that a new connector will fix the problem, but it's still an old sensor that could still fail, and offer the customer the extra job of replacing it. Also making sure they understand pulling the intake could have unintended repercussions of extra work that cold go along with pulling the intake. A $20 repair bill vs a complete intake refresh since we all probably agree that even if the TPS, other knock sensor etc... are working we don't put the old ones back on if the intake is pulled.

The monkey wrench in this discussion is the DIY'er at home who doesn't have access to the diagnostic equipment. It's really unfortunate there isn't a simple way to verify if a knock sensor is functioning.

Replacing a connector is a band-aid? You must be joking. A band-aid repair is using electrical tape to hold the broken connector together. Something most of us have done to get us by until we have the time to fix it properly.
If a perfectly running car comes in for a TB / WP job and you notice the MAF connector isn't in the best of shape, do you at least offer to replace the connector or is replacing the entire harness the only option? Same logic applies here.

Doing unnecessary work can cause issues too. The least invasive approach to fix a problem should always be considered and at least offered to the customer. If you do not want your name on a job where just the connector is replaced, that's fine, but not giving the customer the option is not right at all.

Worst case scenario is replacing the connector leads to a failed sensor down the road and the customer is no worse off than how they started except their wallet is missing a few dollars (but not much). You act like we are suggesting duct taping a leaking fuel line or something.

There are some scenarios in the automotive world where replacing the connector is the only realistic option due to the complexity of replacing the sensor or harness.