Lets try this again. (starts then "almost" dies, then staggers, then runs great)
06-28-2006, 10:02 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Jack Riffle
If you unplugged the cold start injector and the result was that it started harder, then I suspect your problem is fuel starvation rather than too much fuel. You may have to bite the bullet and install a gauge on the end of the fuel rail to help diagnose the problem. Starting to sound to me like a bad check valve at the fuel pump.
Do you have a suggestion about installing a gauge. I've read a little about it, but a source for the gauge and installation recommendations? I think I understand that I will need to drill and tap the end of the fuel rail? Any specifics or a link would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, it seems like with all this help I may eventually get it fixed and retain my sanity. The PO, actually two owners ago, had removed the ash tray, which I am replacing, could that have anything to do with it?
Rod
06-28-2006, 10:43 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Jack Riffle
Rod, you should have mentioned the ashtray in the beginning. Obviously the ashtray bearings failed causing a short circuit between the brake pedal and the steering wheel. HA, HA. Be patient and eventually we will stumble onto the cure. It is my understanding that you can remove the cap and ball at the end of the passenger side fuel rail and install a guage there. I have seen several done this way. Possibly someone will chime in and let us know where to buy the gauge and the procedure for installing it. The reason I think you are lean instead of rich is this; unplugging the cold start injector denies the engine EXTRA fuel it needs when it is cold so it starts harder. ERGO, it obviously needs that extra fuel. It is NOT too rich. It is too lean. Check again all vacuum connections. Did you remember to tighten the boot between the throttle body and manifold? This will cause a vacuum leak and lean the mixture. Check the intake runner mounting bolts for tightness. Check the injectors carefully and make sure there are no obvious leaks. Order new ashtray bearings and ask Andrew to make an offering to the shrine for you. Good luck, keep us updated.
I'm happy to put on a pressure gauge on it. I hope someone can give me a source for the right one and some helpful suggestions regarding installation.
I just the new ash tray today, so we may have the problem solved as soon as I can get it in. I hope it has good bearings.
Rod
06-28-2006, 11:08 PM
#18
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Rod,
I had very similar symptoms for almost a year until I replaced the ISV.
It was amazing how many maldies the faulty idle speed control valve caused :
Hard starts, no starts,starts then dies, rough idle, bucking at low speeds.
Worse when cold too.
RDS
I had very similar symptoms for almost a year until I replaced the ISV.
It was amazing how many maldies the faulty idle speed control valve caused :
Hard starts, no starts,starts then dies, rough idle, bucking at low speeds.
Worse when cold too.
RDS
06-28-2006, 11:15 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by RDS928S
Rod,
I had very similar symptoms for almost a year until I replaced the ISV.
It was amazing how many maldies the faulty idle speed control valve caused :
Hard starts, no starts,starts then dies, rough idle, bucking at low speeds.
Worse when cold too.
RDS
I had very similar symptoms for almost a year until I replaced the ISV.
It was amazing how many maldies the faulty idle speed control valve caused :
Hard starts, no starts,starts then dies, rough idle, bucking at low speeds.
Worse when cold too.
RDS
It is frustration though, I know you can appreciate that.
Rod
06-29-2006, 08:08 PM
#20
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The latest from beautiful Muncie, Indiana. I put a pressure gauge on the fuel rail and it reads between 29psi and 31psi upon start up. It holds steady at 29+psi, except will rise to 31psi when the engine starts to drag down rpm's. As soon as it clears it's throat, or gets a new mouthful, whichever is happening, it drops back down to 29psi.
When I shut it off, the pressure rose to 32psi and has held there steady (actually increased to 33.5psi, I assume due to the fuel in the rails being heated) for about 30 minutes. I went back and checked just now - 45minutes - and it had dropped to 22. This was apparently a rapid drop sometime over or during the 15minutes. It help without dropping at all for the first 30 minutes.
Rod
When I shut it off, the pressure rose to 32psi and has held there steady (actually increased to 33.5psi, I assume due to the fuel in the rails being heated) for about 30 minutes. I went back and checked just now - 45minutes - and it had dropped to 22. This was apparently a rapid drop sometime over or during the 15minutes. It help without dropping at all for the first 30 minutes.
Rod
06-29-2006, 08:19 PM
#21
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My car is at zero fuel pressure every morning so that is not an issue.
Max fuel pressure (with vacuum lines removed from fuel pressure regulators) is close to 40lbs.
With the car turned off - and the fuel pump on, you should see more than 32psi - that is idle ruel pressure.
Thing is, this really has little to do with starting. When I start my car cold, it's at 30ish psi of fuel pressure. The fuel is not getting in the combustion chamber or too much air is getting in. Since these cars do not have a manual choke - it's hard to find the issue.
Max fuel pressure (with vacuum lines removed from fuel pressure regulators) is close to 40lbs.
With the car turned off - and the fuel pump on, you should see more than 32psi - that is idle ruel pressure.
Thing is, this really has little to do with starting. When I start my car cold, it's at 30ish psi of fuel pressure. The fuel is not getting in the combustion chamber or too much air is getting in. Since these cars do not have a manual choke - it's hard to find the issue.
06-29-2006, 09:25 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Jack Riffle
Think I'll have a few Amstels and mull this over for a bit. It has me a little bit........puzzled.
I have a replacement temperature-time sensor and a cold start injector being ovenighted. I'll try them one at a time and see what happens.
Rod
06-29-2006, 09:44 PM
#23
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I didn't read every post - hope this isn't a repeat.
Try starting it (cold) with the vacuum hoses off the regulators - this will give you extra fuel at starup (more pressure) I found while my car was doing this, it was actually starting too lean, needed to be choked.
Try starting it (cold) with the vacuum hoses off the regulators - this will give you extra fuel at starup (more pressure) I found while my car was doing this, it was actually starting too lean, needed to be choked.
06-29-2006, 09:55 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr
I didn't read every post - hope this isn't a repeat.
Try starting it (cold) with the vacuum hoses off the regulators - this will give you extra fuel at starup (more pressure) I found while my car was doing this, it was actually starting too lean, needed to be choked.
Try starting it (cold) with the vacuum hoses off the regulators - this will give you extra fuel at starup (more pressure) I found while my car was doing this, it was actually starting too lean, needed to be choked.
Are you sure you don't want to send my your blower, since it solved your problem? ;-) You know, just to try for 6 or 8 months?
Rod
06-29-2006, 10:12 PM
#25
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Front item is just the dampner, ignore that for now. I'm talking about the two under the air filter housing.
When the car is off & you turn on the fuel pump - what is your fuel pressure?
About the blower - maybe after November?
When the car is off & you turn on the fuel pump - what is your fuel pressure?
About the blower - maybe after November?
06-30-2006, 12:41 PM
#26
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Chapter?????
Replaced the time-temperature sensor, and the cold start injector, no change.
Anybody got a replacement............ ???
What's left?
Rod
Replaced the time-temperature sensor, and the cold start injector, no change.
Anybody got a replacement............ ???
What's left?
Rod
06-30-2006, 01:20 PM
#27
Supercharged
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IIRC, there's two micro switches on the throttle quadrant. One for idle and one for WOT. Have you checked both of these? Don't just listen for the click, but check with a multimeter to make sure they are turning on and off. I tihnk someone else had an idle issue recently and it turned out to be those little micro-switces.
06-30-2006, 01:24 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by Andrew Olson
IIRC, there's two micro switches on the throttle quadrant. One for idle and one for WOT. Have you checked both of these? Don't just listen for the click, but check with a multimeter to make sure they are turning on and off. I tihnk someone else had an idle issue recently and it turned out to be those little micro-switces.
Thanks
Rod
06-30-2006, 01:36 PM
#29
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It's either too lean or too rich when cold - starting. My money is on too lean - not enough fuel going in (need to choke it). Pulling the lines off the regulators will cause full pressure at all time. Cannot hurt anything.
06-30-2006, 01:38 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by Rod Underwood
I swapped them both out some time ago with no change, but it won't hurt to check them to verify that I didn't replace a bad one with a bad one.
Thanks
Rod
Thanks
Rod
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...41#post3167741