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View Poll Results: Shark handling vs 1977 911
Shark will handle better without modifications.
46.15%
Shark will handle as well if equally setup.
16.92%
Shark can't handle as well because of weight.
24.62%
Sharks require more than $3k in mods to handle as well.
16.92%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

911 Handling vs Shark

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Old 06-19-2006, 02:01 AM
  #1  
LaughaC
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Default 911 Handling vs Shark

I've read the 928 handles almost as well as the 911 from the same era, and that only the most skilled 911 driver could beat a 928 through high-speed curves.

My 911 has been lowered, corner-balanced, wears Konis, and weighs about 2500 pounds (add 200 when I get in=2700).

With equal tires & shocks, can my 928's 3500 pounds (3700 gross) ever come close to achieving similar lateral G's on a skid pad?
Old 06-19-2006, 02:37 AM
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michaelathome
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Chris,

They are different cars? The 928 was built as a GT (Grand Touring) car. The 928 has a better F/R weight ratio and a wider stance than a 911, maybe not a 930/5 of the same era w/out mods.

I am guessing that if you were to put heavier sways than stock, heavier shocks and do some other suspension refreshing it could hold it's own against a lot of new sports cars.

There are a lot of things to consider when trying to make a comparison as you have. I would say that it should be able to with the right set-up if not handle better, but the driving style of both is going to be different and adjustments on the drivers behalf will have to be made.

Kilbort, Carl F and others keep up with much newer and more expensive cars than theirs on the track including 911/930/935's and variants. I can't imagine that with a suspension refresh and some time behind the wheel to learn the cars characteristics it couldn't hold it's own.

My .02

Michael
Old 06-19-2006, 02:46 AM
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928Quest
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Article after article sez the same thing, the 928 eats up the corners in an almost boring / uneventful way, while the 911 needs to be DRIVEN through the corners. The authors usually say the 911 was more fun because they had to work at it. The 911 transmitts every groove, pebble, and humpty bump, while the 928 just blows through it. The 911 is probably better at extreme sharp corners, the 928 is better at not wearing the driver out through all type of corners.

The 911 vs 928 article that came out in Excellance a few months ago might be good reading for you. There are others that have similar comments.

My vote is in my signature.
Old 06-19-2006, 03:58 AM
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Joe F
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I don't like the "equally set up" option. Hard to know what that means. I think the stock 1978 928 against the stock 1977 911 will handle better. Now there could be some semantics about what you mean by handling. Is the 911 faster in an autoX course. Could be. But on a track, with the street equipment they came with stock, the 928 is the better handling car.

Could a really good 911 driver beat an average 928 driver? Probably, but that's not a fair test of the cars capability. I think the opposite would be true too. A really good 928 driver against an average 911 driver, the 928 guy would probably win. Again. a good driver against an average driver is not a fair test of the car.

If you had a seasoned driver that regularly races a 928 against a seasoned driver that regularly races a 911 and put them in stock models, on the same track, I think the 928 will be quicker over several laps.

Of course, my prejudice might be showing. After trail braking into a corner caused unwanted oversteer one time too many, I divested myself of 911's many years ago.

To each his own, but I have made my choice.

Talk amongst yourselves.
Cheers
Old 06-19-2006, 04:56 AM
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Ron_H
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Why does everyone always speak of "track or auto-x" numbers?

How about we start at San Diego, California, up through Washington state, turn right and head across to Maine, and turn right again and down to Florida and then right again and back to California.........twice?! Flat out. No limits.

Having driven more than a few miles in a 911, I know who would likely finish,
and win. And then go for another cool down drive for FUN, after a leisurely dinner.
Old 06-19-2006, 07:10 AM
  #6  
Daniel Dudley
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I think 928s are very critical of tire size, and need really wide rubber or slicks to really achieve their true potential. That would be especially given their weight. Setting up a 928 properly means putting them on a diet. They are awesome cars with world class handling even today, and drive a lot like a viper, a car of similar setup and girth.

Tires, springs and shocks are all you need. Then it is up to the driver. But the difference between the 911 and the 928 could be summed up like this ; one is an inherenly stable car, the other has an inherent instability that can be exploited. Both are great cars with super potential.
Old 06-19-2006, 07:47 AM
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RDS928S
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This poll can only be accurate if voters own both a 911 & 928.
My 78 911 with modified suspension will out handle my 86 928 with a modified suspension. There is no debate.

RDS
Old 06-19-2006, 08:46 AM
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jakermc
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Originally Posted by RDS928S
This poll can only be accurate if voters own both a 911 & 928.
My 78 911 with modified suspension will out handle my 86 928 with a modified suspension. There is no debate.

RDS
Agreed.
Old 06-19-2006, 09:11 AM
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SwayBar
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Originally Posted by LaughaC
My 911 has been lowered, corner-balanced, wears Konis, and weighs about 2500 pounds (add 200 when I get in=2700).

With equal tires & shocks, can my 928's 3500 pounds (3700 gross) ever come close to achieving similar lateral G's on a skid pad?
No way. The 928 in your example is simply too heavy.

Originally Posted by michaelathome
The 928 has a better F/R weight ratio
I do not agree because it is a misnomer that a car should have a 50/50 weight distribution; race cars are typically in the 45/55 to 40/60 range.
Old 06-19-2006, 09:26 AM
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Cameron
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Just read an old C&D or R&T compo on the weekend. Early 80's 911 vs 928 vs Audi Quattro at Sear's Point. Stock US models. From fastest to slowest around the track: 928, 911, Audi. Just one reference point. You always feel like you are going fast in an older 911. You seldom feel like you are going fast in a 928. My .02.

To answer your question, in my opinion if you are taking about lateral G's on a skid pad, 1000lbs makes a huge difference and you will not pull the same G's in the 928.
Old 06-19-2006, 09:27 AM
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MGW-Fla
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I've owned both & they are different cars. The 911 is much less forgiving & the comments about them having to be driven through a corner is accurate. Also the comment about oversteer. To me it depends upon what you are looking for I guess. I enjoy my 928 much much more than I did my 911. Just seems like my 1990 911 was always reminding me about the potential for breaking loose much more than my 928 ever has. Only takes a time or two of your rear end coming around to open your eyes real quickly. And then to have to go against what your mind is telling you to do & accelerate to pull the rear end back in line takes some thought. I didn't completely trust it nor me either I guess. The 928 just seems more stable to me thus I feel much more confident in driving it. My 911 never allowed any lack in concentration in a corner. My 928 seems to take them with ease. Just feels much more stable, more planted than my 911 did. Course, my opinion has nothing to do with track driving if that is the purpose of the question. I got to ride along for two hot laps with world champion Porsche driver Hurley Haywood at Robeling Road track in Savannah Ga. once. It was in his 1991 IMSA world champion 964. Was quite the eye opener in just what a race ready 911 can do. Scared the heck outta me on the first lap, after the 2nd one, I was wishing we could of gone ten more!
Old 06-19-2006, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MGW-Fla
I got to ride along for two hot laps with world champion Porsche driver Hurley Haywood at Robeling Road track in Savannah Ga. once. It was in his 1991 IMSA world champion 964. Was quite the eye opener in just what a race ready 911 can do. Scared the heck outta me on the first lap, after the 2nd one, I was wishing we could of gone ten more!
You are so fortunate! How did you score a gig like that??
Old 06-19-2006, 10:25 AM
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Perhaps we need to define 'better handling'. If we mean more benign and easier to drive hard for the average driver, sure the 928 is better.

But if we mean which car has the ability to be driven faster through a variety of turns on a race track(slow tight curves, fast sweepers, changes in camber and elevation, etc) with a talented driver its the 911. Put in enough seat time on the race track in a 911 and it's a ***** cat, not intimidating at all. Probably one of the easiest cars to throttle steer once you learn its tendencies. There is a reason for the 911's long history of success on the race track. If the 928 could keep up you would have seen a lot more private teams running them over the years instead of the 911. (Yes, I know there are exceptions to this rule)

This isn't a bad thing. The 911 was designed to be a sports car and the 928 to be a GT touring car. Each is arguably best in class at their intended purposes.
Old 06-19-2006, 10:27 AM
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heinrich
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The 911 will corner in a fraction of the time a 928 can, because it has less front axle weight. I have personally owned and driven both and seen this for myself. If you yank the wheel on a 911 you had better intend on making a 90 degree redirection. In a 928 the same action will give you a far more "predictable" yet by production car standards, lightning fast direction change. 928 is survivable by a newbie, 911 not.

Driving fast through corners is a different thing. Both cars will get you through the twists about equally fast, perhaps the 928 a little more stable, and therefore faster.

In the hands of an expert, I believe they are equal IF they are similar weight.
Old 06-19-2006, 10:29 AM
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heinrich
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And the stories about a 911 being tailhappy are bullocks. All cars with good torque on the rear wheels will give you a joyride in 360's if you lift throttle mid-corner. I've indiced this in 911; 928 and 944. Surprisingly, 911 is a lot less willing to let go.


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