BC

Something was "Lost in Translation" though - Honda and toyota know how to make 300,000 mile cars. Porsche used to. Now they can make expensive cars cheaply.

Newbie928

Hrm. Gonna have to differ on this one; according to wikipedia, the Cayenne is Porsche's best selling vehicle in North America, having sold over 100,000 as of a year ago. I see them everywhere.

Wikipedia article

BC

Well if its on the internet, it must be true. They are over produced. The cayenne success was suggested by the innitial orders, which were skewed a bit by Porsche "selling" to thier dealers.

yes, I see alot too. But that doesn't mean there are dozens and dozens on each dealer lot considered "sold" but not in the hands of owners because the buyers were the dealers.

It all boils down to this: If a company persists in pissing off its core market, it will not do well. The 911 is Porsches Bain and Glory.

BC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_928

"Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear in 2004 referred to the 928 as "a proper Porsche"."

Newbie928

Now I haven't polled dealers about how many of their cayennes are just sitting on the lots and not being sold, but according to more than one (start flinging poo now) Internet source (MSNBC, Auto Racing Daily), the Cayenne accounted for very nearly half of Porsche's 2005 new car sales, and that is down from 2004 figures where it was more than 50%.

Additionally, sales figures for SUVs and light trucks are apparently, according to (Internet Source, boo, boo) MSNBC, down across the auto industry. Apparently cayman/boxster sales are up over last year, thus far in to 2006 (again Internet Source, boo, boo).

The automakers don't give me their sales figures in any other outlet than internet sources, I don't merit that much attention apparently.

Quality is another issue; I fully expected, because Porsche is Porsche, that Consumer Reports would rate them excruciatingly high. I do in my mind anyway. It's not the case though, Cayennes do not get good marks apparently.

There are RMS problems with Boxsters in the past, I don't know if they've eliminated these or whether they have extended to the Cayman now as well. It's not the point really. I see flames for every make hailing from the vaunted German Quality Manufacturing. I have seen on (television source, boo, boo) Motor Week the long term evaluations of the Cayenne being very positive, apart from tire wear and brake wear.

Porsche isn't going anywhere though, even if they trot out a 928 for the new millennium. The company is too fiscally responsible now: note the ownership stake in VW, hedging more bets engineering and design-wise, as well as consulting work they do to optimize efficiency in hospitals and so on.

Sorry, I think that's just 'the sky is falling' talk. They're not going to be Toyota, not even GM will be Toyota. They don't have to be though, do they. There is no substitute.

BC

There is no doubt that they are not, and may never be the same company that (hand) built your 82. They simply are no longer that small, intelligent company. I'm not even saying that the 928 is a perfect design - far from it.

The RMS issues have not been fixed on the 997s, so I would think they aren't on the Caymans. Porsche is getting more and more nasty about warantee claims on cars actually used for what a Porsche should be, instead of posuer boulevard cruising. Pride comes before the fall, and Porsche has not8 been humble for quite a while.

tv

Just a couple points guys;

The 928 actually sold very well in the MARKETS hayday. In the mid 80's it was selling over 5K units a year of a car that WAS a supercar and priced accordingly like brendan said. It was the economy that went south as FlottLeben says. I remember those days and the 928 back then very well.


The Cayenne is the thing that has allowed porsche to stay independent. It has been a huge success even though its twin, the touareg, is the better buy.

I just think it will be cool to see a really well done GT type car from porsche again and see how it stacks up to the best thing that ever came out of stuttgart.

Newbie928

I'm proud of the car that Porsche produced, that I own.

I'm a bit more proud of the previous owner's care that left me with such a good car.

They're not a humble company and there's no doubt about that, but they don't market new vehicles to a humble sector either. This may contrast rather severely with the 928 ownership out there; there is definitely a contrast between Cayenne and 911 owners and the 928 ownership.

Adam C

Brendan, I've ahad three 928s and have my current one gutted for a complete interior overhaul. I don't know about hand built....the 928 is excellent mechanically but the interiors were cheaply built for what the car cost new.

The interior of my 87S4 relies heavily on plastic inside. I wouldn't call it an exotic. I was in an '05 Turbo the other day that blows my 928 away for fit and finish.

I love the '28 but Porsche is building better cars these days.

A

BC

I have taken apart a few 928s myself Adam.


Well, I helped on a Rolls Royce of the same year, and apart from the leather emelling much better, and the carpet being much better, the only difference was where there is cardboard on our 928, the rolls has thicker boarding, and maybe some wood in the dash.

We have to remember that Porsche is an engineering company with a very good marketing department.

But then when we do that we ask ourselves why they have such terrible oil on the 928 engine, why RMS is a constant issue on the 996 cars, and now possibly into the 997 cars, why they went away from Dry sump for the 911 line, who the hell thought a 7 foot timing belt was a good idea.

Its a fine line. A very fine line. I have only been in a ferrari once, but it only really felt like a very high strung honda with leather everywhere. Very dainty controls.

We take what we can get and change the things we don't like if we can. The 28 928 is a great platform for this.

Jim bailey - 928 International

A large number of new Porsche cars are leased many through Porsche financial so many of the SOLD cars really belong to Porsche who is betting on the residual value and hoping that people will buy the car at the end of the lease. There is a business of finding people to assume existing leases and one of the most popular cars looking for a new lessee is the Boxster as many want out early...

Jim bailey - 928 International

The wheelbase of the Ferrari car at 116 inches just kept bouncing around my head so I looked up the wheelbase of a Ford Crown Victoria Police cruiser.... it is ONLY 114 inches !

BC

To get the engine behind the rear axle, ferarri is making the wheel base longer, it seems.

Adam C

Jim - I saw a 612 scaglietti at the ferrari dealership ast week. It was massive - simply massive. i think it was the same size as my 7series bimmer and only had two doors. Not sure what they were thinking...

Jim bailey - 928 International

They were wanting to get 55% of the weight on the rear axle 60 % being optimum so extended the front end shoved the axle far forward ended up with a 116 wheelbase for a front / mid engine design good for acceleration and touring high speed but is a big 4000lb plus car.