993 C4S Ate me
#17
Rennlist Member
The 993 is one of the sexiest cars on the planet; at least that's what my girlfriend keeps telling me. It's hard to argue her point while looking at all those curves in Garth's pic, although that one would look even better lowered an inch, inch-and-a-half on all four corners.
#19
Racer
All it takes is a little sand or a few pebbles and the tires on the 928 will spin enough to make my S8 look much faster to 60.
Not to mention smoother and quieter.
Not to mention smoother and quieter.
#20
Three Wheelin'
Even without the AWD in the 993 the weight of the motor in back allows the tires to hook up much better than a 928's does. When you throw Mille Miglia mufflers on a 993 and drill the airbox the sounds are incredible...much more so than one running stock. 993 are nimble little sportscars, 928's are luxurious GT's. In nearly stock form I think the 993's have the advantage from a stand-still with the later GT's and GTS's somewhere very close. The fact that some of you guys have 928's that can pull the same 0-60 times and top speeds while you are lounging in those comfy seats all nice & relaxed is what makes 928's so cool. Not that I race, but drivers being equal, I think a 993 is probably alot more capable of producing faster lap times on a track just due to the weight advantage and the ability for the rear wheels to hook up better out of turns. My 993 absolutely crushes my 928 in all performance aspects (my 928 buyer hasn't showed up yet this morning!)
#21
928 Collector
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Originally Posted by 2ndof2
Even without the AWD in the 993 the weight of the motor in back allows the tires to hook up much better than a 928's does. When you throw Mille Miglia mufflers on a 993 and drill the airbox the sounds are incredible...much more so than one running stock. 993 are nimble little sportscars, 928's are luxurious GT's. In nearly stock form I think the 993's have the advantage from a stand-still with the later GT's and GTS's somewhere very close. The fact that some of you guys have 928's that can pull the same 0-60 times and top speeds while you are lounging in those comfy seats all nice & relaxed is what makes 928's so cool. Not that I race, but drivers being equal, I think a 993 is probably alot more capable of producing faster lap times on a track just due to the weight advantage and the ability for the rear wheels to hook up better out of turns. My 993 absolutely crushes my 928 in all performance aspects (my 928 buyer hasn't showed up yet this morning!)
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'96 993
'80 928
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'96 993
'80 928
#23
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You can make a pretty good case that the 993 Carrera 4 S was the best of the best when it comes to being a 911... and the resale prices reflect that !
#24
Three Wheelin'
Heinrich,
Just sayin' my '80 can't compete but the later 928's probably can. Even so, from a pure handling perspective since the 80 has some suspension mods and bigger wheels/tires the handling is probably not THAT much worse than a few of the later 928's. It may not have the pull of later 928's due to the smaller motor but the handling should be pretty much in the ballpark of newer 928's. So I'm sayin' even WITH 300+ hp the 928 still doesn't handle as well due to the weight. I guess the only way there would be to fairly compare performance on a track would be to have two cars, a 928 and a 993 with exactly the same power to weight ratios and stock suspension on both cars and see which could get around a track like Laguna Seca the quickest - assuming two equally competent drivers. These are two totally different kinds of cars so a comparison is really not that fair anyway. Obviously with all the aftermarket add-ons available out there a 928 could be made to smoke any 993 in stock form (and vice-versa)
Whew, that was a close one! I had Godzilla after me!!!!
Just sayin' my '80 can't compete but the later 928's probably can. Even so, from a pure handling perspective since the 80 has some suspension mods and bigger wheels/tires the handling is probably not THAT much worse than a few of the later 928's. It may not have the pull of later 928's due to the smaller motor but the handling should be pretty much in the ballpark of newer 928's. So I'm sayin' even WITH 300+ hp the 928 still doesn't handle as well due to the weight. I guess the only way there would be to fairly compare performance on a track would be to have two cars, a 928 and a 993 with exactly the same power to weight ratios and stock suspension on both cars and see which could get around a track like Laguna Seca the quickest - assuming two equally competent drivers. These are two totally different kinds of cars so a comparison is really not that fair anyway. Obviously with all the aftermarket add-ons available out there a 928 could be made to smoke any 993 in stock form (and vice-versa)
Whew, that was a close one! I had Godzilla after me!!!!
#26
928 Collector
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Originally Posted by Jim bailey - 928 International
You can make a pretty good case that the 993 Carrera 4 S was the best of the best when it comes to being a 911... and the resale prices reflect that !
#28
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Garth S
The C4S is pretty amazing in the dry too - at least on the deserted and twisting backroads of Cape Breton island ...
I had some very quality wheel time in the one below recently - and after an intro 40Km period to 'feel' the car, I leaned into it a bit for an hour's romp with Rick's '86.5 as a chase car. It hooks up very well indeed: while it does not have the torque sensation of a S4, it gathers up road quickly once in motion .... oh ... and when the VarioRam induction activates at 5000rpm, the music is worth the price of admission as it holds in 'till the rev limiter is touched
Tempting - I've got the running gear of a C4S available - just need a good rolling chassis, likely a C2 993 to accept it ....
I had some very quality wheel time in the one below recently - and after an intro 40Km period to 'feel' the car, I leaned into it a bit for an hour's romp with Rick's '86.5 as a chase car. It hooks up very well indeed: while it does not have the torque sensation of a S4, it gathers up road quickly once in motion .... oh ... and when the VarioRam induction activates at 5000rpm, the music is worth the price of admission as it holds in 'till the rev limiter is touched
Tempting - I've got the running gear of a C4S available - just need a good rolling chassis, likely a C2 993 to accept it ....
#29
Originally Posted by Jim bailey - 928 International
You can make a pretty good case that the 993 Carrera 4 S was the best of the best when it comes to being a 911... and the resale prices reflect that !
- the C2S was the last air-cooled 911 model to be launched
- only 3,714 was produced as compared to 6,948 C4S's
- it's 50kg lighter (1,400 kg vs the 1,450 kg C4S)
- C2S has a very nice split rear grille (retractable wing) painted in the car's colour
- it's got the 18" hollow-spoke Turbo twists as an option; the C4S came with solid-spokes.
- fair enough it's 0.1 sec slower 0-60 (5.4 compared to the C4S's 5.3)
Top speed is the same at 270 km/h
A benefit for the C4S however is that it's got the big red Turbo brakes.
#30
Originally Posted by jakermc
VRAM actually comes on at 3K rpms. Look at the torque curves of a '95 993 engine and that of a '97 engine and you'll see that the the VRAM engine has about 20% more torque at 3K rpms but nearly identical torque at 5K. That's why max HP is only increased by 7hp in a VRAM engine versus it's non-VRAM counterpart. The benefit is at lower rpms, not where max power is produced.
Together with modified valves the varioram models have 285 hp compared to 272 on the earlier (94-95) 993's.
Last edited by Kolbjorn S; 05-16-2006 at 09:26 AM.