BC

I guess I will just need to stay away from PCA then, so I can have good clean fun. SCCA, trackmasters, private groups that run track days at willow springs, etc.

Anything that has to do with PCA always seems to smack of people who bring thier "drama" from executive jobs home with them and want to make the PCA into some huge corporation. Which it is. And biased.

So I guess I wouldn't be able to enter a 78 body with S4 brakes and Suspension, an S4 motor, aftermarket efi, and a supercharger in any of these classes huh? I guess that will have to be my street car then.

BC

Who do you race against with the brown very brown 928?

Jim bailey - 928 International

It is an H class car so some early 911s , 944, 944s any USA 928 78-84 but with very minor modifications 7 inch front rims 8 inch rear maximum near full interior and your car with blower would be one class higher than Mark and Joe ! Every form of racing has rules some more than others the key is to find out what they are and figure out where you can fit in.

BC

So thats three cars. A track fun car with the blower, a stock car but built for racing, and a street car.

Maybe I should have two. The Street car and the Track car, prepped for some nice middling class.

FlyingDog

Brendan, the way I read it you can use S-brakes, but you have to weigh 3200lbs as a 928S. Exhaust is free (providing it meets noise regs... hahaha) so headers and big pipes are fine.

3 possibilities for this:
78-82 US 4.5L with 2.75 or 2.73 at 3100lbs: less weight, less displacement
83-84 US 4.7L with 2.27 at 3200lbs: more displacement, S brakes, 5th gear useless
84 Euro with 2.73 at 3300lbs: extra weight, S brakes, much more HP

You could probably pull off a 78-79 cam swap on the US cars and nobody would notice. I think the 3rd idea is the best possibility. I just checked SuperCup's rules and they now have the same 100lb penalty for Euros.

http://www.44cup.com/homepage.html

...How much does a cage cost?

BC

Thats so funny that you would need to be 3300 lbs, and be competing some some very short CA tracks (and long) with 924 and 944 cars, prepped with 160hp ore more, weighing 2400lbs. Now thats 900lbs. No 100 or 130hp increase is going to overcome 900lbs in weight.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Yes the rule makers tend to fixate on power to weight ratio as a way to equalize overlooking the cornering and braking advantage of lighter weight.

FlyingDog

That's probably more than my car weighs right now, relatively stock with no cage (but without me in it). Only very early 944s can weigh that little. 944Ss and above are 2650 and above. Looking at the standings for mid-atlantic ( http://www.44cup.com/supstandings.html ), the lowest weight car with points weighs 2900lbs. Unfortunately they don't show what the cars are, but I'd guess 2900 is 944S2, 3000 is 951, 3200 is 968, and 3250 is 951S. I don't think a 3300lb Euro would have much trouble with a 2900 or 3200lb N/A 4-cylinder. The turbos would be the only things that worry me.

BC

And worry they should. They do have quite a penalty in weight though, as you state in your post.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Brendan, Now you understand why I went from G stock in to GT2 in PCA

BC

I think I understand the why, but the how and what is another clueless entry into my HD.

So GT2 is just "crazy whatever goes" kind of thing?

I like the idea of a track car, but also I like the idea of a car I can drive to work mon-fri- then drive up to willow springs for a track day - of course, THOSe track days have little to do with these POC and PCA "classification" races where I think people want cars (rightfully) to be more evenly documented and competed. I think I would like that too.

Jesus - what class would a 78 928 with S4 suspension, BIG brakes, lightened to about 3k lbs, with a 5.0L 32V "enhanced" engine running about 12psi be in? Should I even ask? Will I be racing on the same track as Emerson Fittipaldi and simply want to go home?

GlenL

You can run whatever you want in driver's education sessions. People are moved between groups based on how fast they turn laps, not on what the car is. It's when there's competition that the classes come into play.

In my local region they run a time trial series. It includes timed runs on road courses and autocrosses. Previously they had their own classes but are now using the PCA Club Race system. I'm an H car promoted to G for being a Euro. With 8" tires it stays in G but 9" tires and I'd be in F. 10" tires, or brakes or internal engine mods, and it's off to GT classes.

I didn't notice the opportunity for running in 944 spec previously. That'd be fun, if I ever get going on real racing.

BC

So what class is a NEW 997S in, when it is stock and some good seat belts?

SwayBar

Brendan, a 32v running 12 psi on the track is not a realistic expectation at this point unless you are willing to spend at least an additional $3500+ for engine management hardware and professional tuning alone. If you don't, you'll attend a grand total of one-half of an event.

Best case scenario for starting DE's is to strip the car down as light as possible as less-weight is perfectly in-tune horsepower, 'big brakes', and a handling kit, all rolled into one mod, the 'perfect' mod. Noteworthy: it's free free free.

Run a stock engine with an exhaust; it will run forever AND sound great.

Install engine-oil and tranny coolers, track wheels/tires/pads, gauges, and learn how to drive the wheels off of it in that configuration.

Only then, think about more horsepower.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Brendan,

Basically with PCA, once you lighten it, you are in GT, so your 78 would be GT. Without the lightening it might move up a class because of the brakes, but the wrong year motor would put you in GT as well (if I recall correctly). In your case GT1 with the forced induction.

While you may question what classes they put cars in, keep in mind that they are trying to keep cars within a class somewhat competitive. It really isn't reasonable to expect them to review each car for it's specific mods and determine the class it should be in, so the classificiation system they use has the "intent" of keeping things fair. GT is where almost anything goes in PCA.

I have yet to be convinced that the PCA rules would allow a 928 to be competitive in a stock or prepared class. As Jim B. pointed out, the vehicle weight is simply too much to make up for in turning or braking.

In my case, I have a 928 race car, an M3 street/track car, and am preparing a 928 street car