S4 5 speed vs GT
12-04-2005 | 02:27 PM
#31
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From: saratoga, ca
3 or 4 gears would be better, for better application of your HP, but with an auto there are some interesting power transfer out of the hole right?
2 gears to 60mph, would again be the 3.09 comparison, where to 39mph, you get the 20% gains, and then you match the stock 1st gear. control the wheel spin, and you do have a faster set up to 60mph and to 1/4mile.
Mk
2 gears to 60mph, would again be the 3.09 comparison, where to 39mph, you get the 20% gains, and then you match the stock 1st gear. control the wheel spin, and you do have a faster set up to 60mph and to 1/4mile.
Mk
Originally Posted by Tom. M
My 87 AT almost did the 1/4 mile in two gears. I was running an autothority chipset and had slightly larger tires on the rear.....
If I had maybe 200 or so more rpm could have pulled it off.....would have been and awesome time I bet...either way..still ran a 14.1 even after letting off for the last little bit after hitting the rev limiter....
https://rennlist.com/forums/newreply...ply&p=2621509#
burnout
Later,
Tom
89GT
If I had maybe 200 or so more rpm could have pulled it off.....would have been and awesome time I bet...either way..still ran a 14.1 even after letting off for the last little bit after hitting the rev limiter....
https://rennlist.com/forums/newreply...ply&p=2621509#burnout
Later,
Tom
89GT
12-04-2005 | 05:19 PM
#32
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From: Northwest
You guys are making me drool...no matter which way you go. Shane has a good point, the supercharged '86 is one heck of a ride. Since there are quite a few around, and they're relatively cheap, and can be made FAST...I think demand for the a 86.5s will increase. I'm not sure that either the GT or the S4 would be comparable, performance wise, to the supercharged 86.5...for about the same money...probably less if you do the wrenching yourself.
Harvey
Harvey
12-05-2005 | 10:40 PM
#33
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From: gettysburg pa.
Originally Posted by mark kibort
I wonder if the Holbert car has the "squirters"? as, it is an EARLY S4 
as far as the reving, or performance, it really depends (as i aways say) it depends on the speed range, or target range . Those are both determined by things such as available HP, shape of HP curve, gear spacing, and weight to name a few of the biggies.
remember the GTS 3.09, S4 3.09, and the 2.2 comparisons. we did a 1/4 mile similation on the computer program and found with stock S4 average HP the 3.09 won over the 2.2 by .1-.2 seconds, but as soon as you change the hp to something higher, (which gives you higher target speeds and changes time spent in those gears, ) all things change. the 3.09 will have the same time as the 2.2 or even the 2.72 gts box. the entire thing of gearing is matching the performance of the system to the application. THIS is why you see some S4s getting better times to 0-60 than a GT . generally, the GT should be better on all counts do to the higher HP by almost 20, and thats the main reason.
the because the tests conducted are still done by humans, with all sorts of condition differences, as well as tire and skill differences, it is really hard to determine which is better, faster, etc. one example of this , is the 2.2 S4 transmission has a redline of 55mph, while the 15% lower geared in 1st GT, will require a shift, although a better launch. a skilled driver could probably get around the differences with launch techniques, but dont forget, the extra shift can kill .2 seconds of acceleration.
pump up that 2.2 redline to 6700rpm with a chip, and suddenly you have a car designed for 0-60 acceleration in one gear.
mk
as far as the reving, or performance, it really depends (as i aways say) it depends on the speed range, or target range . Those are both determined by things such as available HP, shape of HP curve, gear spacing, and weight to name a few of the biggies.
remember the GTS 3.09, S4 3.09, and the 2.2 comparisons. we did a 1/4 mile similation on the computer program and found with stock S4 average HP the 3.09 won over the 2.2 by .1-.2 seconds, but as soon as you change the hp to something higher, (which gives you higher target speeds and changes time spent in those gears, ) all things change. the 3.09 will have the same time as the 2.2 or even the 2.72 gts box. the entire thing of gearing is matching the performance of the system to the application. THIS is why you see some S4s getting better times to 0-60 than a GT . generally, the GT should be better on all counts do to the higher HP by almost 20, and thats the main reason.
the because the tests conducted are still done by humans, with all sorts of condition differences, as well as tire and skill differences, it is really hard to determine which is better, faster, etc. one example of this , is the 2.2 S4 transmission has a redline of 55mph, while the 15% lower geared in 1st GT, will require a shift, although a better launch. a skilled driver could probably get around the differences with launch techniques, but dont forget, the extra shift can kill .2 seconds of acceleration.
pump up that 2.2 redline to 6700rpm with a chip, and suddenly you have a car designed for 0-60 acceleration in one gear.
mk
Kevin 
12-05-2005 | 11:23 PM
#36
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From: saratoga, ca
WOW, you got some big ones!!!! ive always wanted to do it, but just cant on the street, plus i think my redline is 6600rpm? anyway, i was talking ballpark, didnt think anyone would actually try it!! i think 55mph is with the 305x18 tires, while indicated speedo would only be 53mph.
so, you have a 6800redline?? thats awesome. I wonder what the risks are. ive only hit my rev limiter about 3 or 4 times in a heated battle in 1st or 2nd gear off turn 11 at laguna on several occasions. It sure sounds good when it does get up that high. just think how andersons sounds at 7000rpm!!
that sounds interesting you can make a short shift at 5800rpm and still hit the numbers. doesnt sound right. 5800 leaves a lot of hp on the table . probably like the equivilant of 30hp diff (average applied to the wheels , 0-60mph)
talk about shaking in my boots , at Road america, i had my first misshift, 3rd back to 2nd as my shift boot was coming off in my hand and i got sloppy, anyway, lucky it was a slow shift and a subtle short shift to begin with. i calcualted a 5800rpm, minus 5mph for the length of shift, to be around 7000rpm on the ole holbert engine. got it on video too! it sounds like...... bahhhhhhhhhhh, "fudle fudle", Bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggggggggggggggggggg!
I bet these engines are tougher than we even know! besides oiling issues, has a 928 engine every broke a part internally?
mk
so, you have a 6800redline?? thats awesome. I wonder what the risks are. ive only hit my rev limiter about 3 or 4 times in a heated battle in 1st or 2nd gear off turn 11 at laguna on several occasions. It sure sounds good when it does get up that high. just think how andersons sounds at 7000rpm!!
that sounds interesting you can make a short shift at 5800rpm and still hit the numbers. doesnt sound right. 5800 leaves a lot of hp on the table . probably like the equivilant of 30hp diff (average applied to the wheels , 0-60mph)
talk about shaking in my boots , at Road america, i had my first misshift, 3rd back to 2nd as my shift boot was coming off in my hand and i got sloppy, anyway, lucky it was a slow shift and a subtle short shift to begin with. i calcualted a 5800rpm, minus 5mph for the length of shift, to be around 7000rpm on the ole holbert engine. got it on video too! it sounds like...... bahhhhhhhhhhh, "fudle fudle", Bliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggggggggggggggggggg!
I bet these engines are tougher than we even know! besides oiling issues, has a 928 engine every broke a part internally?
mk
Originally Posted by Kevin Michael
Mark you said a 2.20 with a chipset could possibly do 0-60 in 1 gear. I can never resist a temptation to wind out the ol' girl. same stretch of road i always use , car at full warm , about 30 deg. temp outside.set g-tech, rev to 2500 let the clutch out easy , prayed silently that this doesnt blow my engine wound her out to 60 in 1 gear and wa-la! 5.28sec.! at 6800 rpms.not much different than with a1-2 shift at 5800 as far as 0-60 time but cool knowing it do 60 in 1st. I wont do it again though, my knees were shaking thinking about blowing the engine!
12-05-2005 | 11:44 PM
#37
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From: Southern Alberta, Canada
Interesting posts..................solidifies the 5 speed option as the 'more fun' to have car for sure.
BTW my current S4 screams to 140kph in 2nd, a/t (90mph)
BTW my current S4 screams to 140kph in 2nd, a/t (90mph)
12-06-2005 | 06:13 AM
#38
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From: Nova Scotia
Originally Posted by the flyin' scotsman
Interesting posts..................solidifies the 5 speed option as the 'more fun' to have car for sure.
I've not been so fortunate: regardless whether I drive the auto or 5-sp, I still return home with an ear-to-ear self satisfied ****e-eater grin that would have most people committed. Guess I'll have to continue alternately driving them until I can finally make up my mind, or solidify an opinion. Damn, I've been on this project for several years now ..... give me a few more please before I have to decide which is better ..... or more fun .... now, who gets to go first today .... 5-sp or auto? 