Let them post their offerings. Maybe if they do like Carl has done and announce in the header what they are going to describe in the message. That way I can filter out the stuff I don't want to see (REJEX..etc) and pay attention to the stuff I do..such as SC's, clutches, springs, etc...

I think the listings are good so I don't have to filter through every vendors web page to find an item. Plus...the discussion prompted by these announcements are worthwile...since most won't buy something new unless someone posts about how it was implemented or how it worked... very valuable part in my opinion..

Later,
Tom
89GT

 

Randy, I agree with what most people are saying. Please let the sponsors post new products or special sales but "remember we are here" posts and advertising posts can get annoying. Along the lines of what John said, if the post doesn't generate interest, it falls down on the list quickly and is, therefore, seen by less people - quite an efficient market.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
I see no reason in limiting the 'announcements' from our sponsors...so long as they are REAL announcements, and not just something to remind us as to who they are. As Shane said: "If something is posted that I'm not entirely interested in, I skip it and move on to what I am". The same goes for many of the regular "non-sponsor" posts.
Carl posted about his new clutch - even tho I drive an auto, I read it with interest, as I try to remain as knowledgeable as possible. DR's SC work is VERY interesting to MANY on the list....(we won't talk about header 'deals'... ) Obviously - if it starts getting excessive - then we may need to re-evaluate. But, so far - I don't see it as a problem.
Well said, I agree with Mark & Derek I thoroughly enjoy most of the sponsor posts announcing new products even if its something I may never need, want or can afford. Reading the questions & statements from the interaction of the members can be very informative. Its how I think I might learn something more about these great cars. Or how I realize how little I truly know!

 

From Carl F.'s twin disk clutch post:
I did not know that there was a set limit for sponsors. I think that 2 new product announcements a month may be a bit low, at least for the 928 forum. I understand that these rules need to apply to all the forums consistently and the 911 forum, for example, may be overwhelmed with "announcements' if that number was raised. But we need to keep our sponsors in business, we need to give them a reason to invest in R&D, and we need their enthusiasm for advancements to fuel our enthusiasm for these cars. Otherwise, it will get very lonely as a 928 owner and I'd probably have to go out and buy a used Cayman S. Don't let it happen, Randy!! Maybe increase the number to 5?

 

I enjoy the interactive opportunity to investigate new products here, so I don't see it as an issue... not like we drive ferds that have 10,000 new products to choose from that all increase HP by 20%...

 

As long as the rules are set and adhered to by both sponsore and moderators there will be a managed balance in the rennlist universe......with the volume controlled by the list and the sponsors voting with their money on the economic benefit...Conflicts arrise from the inconsistent application of the rules....when percieved to be arbitrary and or capriceous..........So it is simple.....management needs to be consistent....

My personal preference is to let the sponsors tell us what they have....the users here are educated consumers who don't need to be protected by the moderators.

I know that is a small component, maybe immeasurable, of the moderation function.....it also is designed to manage the culture of the place......and I have an opinion about that too. The task is not a hard thing to do given the number of members who come and go over time....as long as the membership numbers meet management's expectations, no one cares that a few malcontents get run off the place.....you make this place like a church or some special club where expressions of opinion are limited to the current moderator dogma......well, then over time you get what you deserve.

This is the best board on the subject, it is a shame so many of the old enthusiasts don't come here any more, but I understand why that is.

 

Hi Randy,

Here is my take on the Rennlist Sponsorship and Posting "Commercials" on this forum.

I have been not only a sponsor of Rennlist since it's inception, but also went even further and have been the Sponsor of the Rennlist 928 E-mail list (since day 1) and also the Rennlist 928 Forum Sponsor. For what it is worth there is big difference between being a Rennlist Sponsor and Sponsoring the specific 928 Lists/Forums, at least that is what my "bean counter" tells me. None of this really matters as I don't receive and or expect any special privileges beyond just a normal Rennlist sponsor, but I want to state this for clarity so everyone knows where I am coming from and what my association with Rennlist is.

From the very beginnings of Rennlist (and when it was also called PorscheList) John Dunkle and I had many conversations about commercial posts on the E-mail lists and later concerning the forums as they came online. I understood and agreed with John on his rules of only 2 commercial posts a month and this has worked very well for everyone for over 8 years or so. John has made these rules very clear over the years and it seems to work to keep the Forum and E-mail Lists truly a place for enthusiasts and not let it become an endless commercial. As a side note, I was in total agreement then (and now) as to how John handled this situation, because as one of the founders of the 928 Owners Club I was VERY adamant about keeping any Banner ads or advertisements off of the 928OC site and it stayed this way as long as I had anything to do with it. Even though I own 928 Specialists, I am first and foremost a 928 owner and enthusiast and despise endless advertisements and "hawking" of products anywhere I chose to go, be it TV, magazines, forum, or club etc.

As a List/Forum Sponsor I knew these rules upfront and have always respected them and I feel it is part of what makes the Rennlist so great. However, if some vendors ignore these long time rules then it makes it less important to be a List/Forum Sponsor since it makes no sense to pay the extra money for these major type sponsorships when some are posting ads or commercials many times a month and the rest of us are abiding by the rules. Plus, all the other vendors will feel the pressure to place even more ads and it becomes a never ending quagmire and the 928 enthusiasts will be the losers. IMHO this will lead to an endless spiral that makes Major Rennlist sponsorship less attractive, then Rennlist revenues spiral downward, those 928ers who do not want to see endless commercials will stop visiting, posting AND paying for memberships etc .. and the next thing we know Rennlist is gone, or at a minimum not a fun place to be anymore!

On the other hand we all want to know about new products for our 928s, but there needs to be a "balance" of how this is handled. Recently and FINALLY there are a huge amount of great 928 aftermarket products coming from all around the world and it is a great time to be a 928 Owner.

I feel one solution to this situation is very simple, keeps to the spirit of John's original vision and lets all of us know about the cool new products coming out for our beloved 928s. Since the rules are and have always been no more than 2 commercial posts per month, then why not lump a bunch of new product announcements into a single Post/Thread. Then vendors could make 2 posts every month and combine 2 weeks worth of new products in each post if they chose, or they could still use those 2 posts to announce one major product per post. This would keep the forums uncluttered with commercials and still get the news out about new 928 products. Interested 928ers could then visit the vendors website for full details etc. about products they are interested in or start a discussion about those products in that thread.

I personally and professionally think between the 2 allowed commercial posts a month and of course of the independent 928er discovering about a new product on a website and posting about it for discussion should serve to keep us all informed. Also, as I understand it from John it is OK" for a vendor to mention a product or service (beyond the 2 pure commercial posts) in response to a solution for a technical question/issue from someone, this was intended to encourage vendors to help out with technical questions/issues on the list/forums and has also worked very well over the years.

On a personal note I hope there can be a solution that keeps the commercial posts to a minimum as they have been over the years because I don't feel very comfortable making posts to Rennlist about every little new product we have.. it makes me feel like a pushy "used car salesman" (no disrespect to honest used car salesmen) and that is just not me. BUT, if the rules are changed and the flood gates are going to be "opened", I unfortunately will have to respond as a company as I would have no choice. However, until John Dunkle changes the rules we will continue to respect the rules of his "house", as I would in anyone's "home" that I am a visitor in.

In closing, I see no problem with the existing rules, or even if that is revised to allow 3 or 4 commercial posts a month. BUT try to consider if vendors are allowed to post say 10 commercials a month then we will start seeing cross post commercials from other "non-928 Rennlist sponsors" on the 928 Forum along with the 928 vendor commercials and we will have opened Pandora's Box and I don't think that is what any of us really want if we really think about it....

Just a thought,

 

I quite enjoy the announcement of new products from the sponsors - it demonstrates a vibrant creativity that we all profit by. The ensuing discussions are equally of interest. For the large part, our sponsors, both new and old, have or are creating their unique slot in our small market. Often, this is augmented via new product announcements. Clearly, there are overlaps of such products & services; however, it never appears ( to me) to demonstrate an 'in your face' competitive, cut throat business strategy as similar products and services are offered - again, we all benefit from this as customers and sponsors.
With advice contributing sponsors like Rich and John, we have a hoard of owners who are now conversant in LH and MAF idiosyncrasies, and can diagnose their own problems: previously, the alternatives were ineffective and expensive - so I don't flinch at the occasional 'plug' for promoting such items.. Similarly, Carl, the Daves, the Marks, and all the other names that should be mentioned contribute to our knowledge base and enjoyment with their newest creations. For a while, there was the loss of Louis' fabled 'X'-pipe - now there is a choice available ....
Yes, no 'weekly special' or 'soup d'jour' banner ads are desired - but creative innovation always strikes a warm place with me: this is a good place to hear of it!

 

ooooooooooooo.....I love when DR uses words like QUAGMIRE!

But seriously - as only a 'member' vs. a 'sponsor' - i was unaware of the 2x announcements/month limit.

With the volume of new 928 products coming out from all our fine sponsors - maybe we SHOULD increase that number.

I'd HATE to have to wait another month to find out that DR had finalized the 16V EURO SC, just because he had posted about the 32V SC and the sway bars in the past 30 days!

 

I just got off the phone with him, it is even funnier to hear him SAY the word "qwaaaaaggmaaaaar"

 

Hi Mark,

>I'd HATE to have to wait another month to find out that DR had finalized the 16V EURO SC,
>just because he had posted about the 32V SC and the sway bars in the past 30 days!

Good point, BUT always remember we have a "New 928 Products" link on our website to keep you informed.... OH Sh*T, John does this count as "1" ? :-)

 

Paul,

>I just got off the phone with him, it is even funnier to hear him SAY the word "qwaaaaaggmaaaaar"

OK, "Mr. Moose Hunter", you know it is against the rules for one red-neck to make fun of another one :-)

 

Curt, I could not agree with you more. Thanks.

 

You silly bastard, I am a hillbilly, not a redneck, shiiiiiiiit, we look up to you guys....."Rednecks are America's rotwielers".............

 

>You silly bastard, I am a hillbilly, not a redneck, shiiiiiiiit, we look up to you guys....."Rednecks are America's rotwielers".............