WICruiser

I am in the middle of my first timing belt project on my '85 auto. Rebuilt the tensioner and got it installed, installed the water pump only to have one bolt strip out (bottom, left (passenger side)).

Any concerns with helicoil this location, or is there a better option?

The rest of the bolts appear to be OK. I could not find a torque spec. in the WSM so I was using 20 NM (is that to much?)

Because I had permatexed the gasket it was trashed when I remove the pump to check things out so I will need to get a new one before I can move forward; once I repair the bolt hole that is.

As part of the timing belt package from 928 International I received one bearing that I can't figure where it goes. I am pretty sure it is described as "bearing for lower guide roller 201PP" - 92810506702. If this goes in the roller that is just to the right (passenger side) of the crank gear I could use some help determining how to get the roller off. I removed the snap ring but with the plastic housing right around it I can't see how to get it pulled off the shaft.

Thanks

Garth S

The bearing in question is a #6201 pressed into a steel cylinder ~1/2" wide - is that the one? If so, remove the housing that the bearing pivots on: the housing is secured to the block via 'e' clips on two steel pins. Once you have the housing in a vise, the bearing and shell can be pulled from its pin. ( in future, the $5 bearing can be reinserted into the same shell - as can all but the tensioner roller bearing).
Before attempting a helicoil, run a M6 tap into the stripped hole: perhaps you can reform enough thread to capture a slightly longer bolt .... try a 30mm and cut down as appropriate ...

Glen McCartney

I had one strip and could not just runa tap through. Instead of helicoil or thread sert, I just threaded it for a 7mm screw, worked fine and much easier.

tv

Here's what i know about your second problem as i am taking it off my spare engine for cleaning purposes. I got the circlip off but the roller doesn't want to budge. I think it needs one of those puller things. BUT even with that, I believe the black plastic crap that surrounds the crank harmonic thing and goes to the drivers side has to come off. PITA

However I was told back when i did my TB that that roller never gets changed, so i didn't and everything is fly.

Edit: I've got to type faster. Garth is right, i was told about the 2 other circlips that hold the arm on. Can you remove the whole arm and roller with the black cover in place?

GlenL

When you can't find a specific spec it falls to the "all other" category. Those 6mm bolts take 6Nm, M8s take 20Nm and M10s take 40Nm.

Trying a bit longer and falling back to a 7mm sounds good.

WICruiser

OK, thanks for the suggestions on the bolt issue.

I will need to research the bearing further as I didn't think it was on an arm but then again it is all new to me. From what I can see to take off the black plastic piece that goes around the crank and over to the driver's side is behind the crank sprocket for the timing belt, I wasn't going to pull the sprocket unless I really need to because the more I take apart the more I have to put back together.

Thanks for the quick response, this forum has a bunch of really great folks who are really on top of things.

UKKid35

I over-torqued the water pump bolts too, not uncommon apparently. I've used an overlong bolt as a stud in order to avoid having to use a helicoil. In my situation there was enough depth left in the threads in the block to do so. Might be worth trying.

mulik51

The think I encountered when I was installing my W/P was that there are different bolts. Ones are shorter, there is like 5 of them(mine were silver color), and ones are longer(mine were gold color). The shorter bolts go in the "middle" of the W/P, you can see that the thickness of W/P there is like two times less the other mounting holes. Point is, if you put a short bolt into the long bolt hole, it is going to strip no matter how you tighten it. You can fix but simply installing longer(supplied)bolt. I needed some time to figure that out

Klim

worf928

Waterpump bolts are 6mm. Spec is 10 Nm. See page 25 of your Porsche Spec booklet for MY 85-89.

dr bob

The two rollers under the crank sprocket come off complete with the bracket, which slides on to a couple of studs in the block. The studs are grooved for what Jim Bailey referred to a 'Jesus Clips', and I can vouch for the validity of that name. They are small circlips that have a tiny relief at each end, where I used the smallest standard snap ring pliers I had to get the clips off. Mine ended up distorted in the process so the new ones that Jim had thoughtfully included in my parts "care package" were used on assembly. I also put some thick caliper slide grease on the pins to snug up the fit with that little bearing console when it was reassembled.

The bearings with the rollers come off that little console after the snap ring/e-clip is removed. Takes just the most gentle persuasion with a drift and a small machinists hammer to push the console pins out of the bearings. Once the bearing/roler is removed, you'll see that the bearings themselves are pressed in to the rollers, and can be easily removed and replaced with some care using a couple sockets and a bench vise. There are no special retainers or clips to hold the rollers onto the bearings, just a snug fit. The bearings are centered in the rollers, so when you put the new bearings in, make sure there is equal space on either side of the bearing once installed in its roller.

Now, for the peace of resistance, I have video that shows the removal, disassembly, reassembly, and replacement of that little bearing assembly on my S4. It's in hi-def 16:9 format, but could be shrunk down a lot into WMV or MPG, and possibly e-mailed if your mail server isn't crowded and you have a hgh-speed connection. Absent that, I can probably grab some frames from the video and post them or e-mail them if you have questions about a specific part of the procedure.

For those playing along at home, the video is a step-by-step illustration of my timing belt and WP replacement saga last July. The narration includes some instruction on the use of the small torque wrench and calls out the torque specs for bolt removed and replaced during the project. Watch for availability from some usual and unusual sources sometime after New Years. I need a few days at the editing console and a third-party review before it will be ready for prime time. In the meanwhile, snippets can be grabbed out to illustrate specific points of the procedure.

HTH!

GlenL

All of the manuals and spec booklets I've got (944 and 928) give the M6 default torque as "6 + 2" Nm. This won't change over model years as it's determined by thread and bolt strength.

WallyP

Dave C is sorta right.

The spec in the '85 - '89 Tech Spec booklet is 8 +2 Nm, which means "8 to 10 Nm", or 6 - 7 lbs/ft, or 72 - 84 inch-pounds...

But Glent is right as well.

Page 10-03 in the Factory Workshop Manuals gives the torque for all other M6 bolts as 6 +2 Nm, which means 6 - 8 Nm, or 4.4 - 6 lbs/ft.

Given the problems with the water pump bolts, I would go with the lower specs.

dr bob

Here's a frame from the video showingthe parts n pieces of the lower guide rollers. The washers shown are fitted on the block pins after the roller console has been installed. Then the two circlips are fitted to hold the console on the pins. I added a little thick caliper slide grease to the pins. You may be able to note from the picture that the holes in the console are a little worn and out-of-round. The grease makes up for a little of that wear.

GlenL

Cheers, Dave.

Nice when people who differ can both be right!

Gets to the old discussion of what Porsche meant with that "6+2" notation. I take it as going for 6 but maybe slipping up to 8 is OK. Or using 8 with steel into steel. With steel into Al I go with the lower number. Absolutely done with trying to drill those hard bolts from soft aluminum.

worf928

I think they key item here is than 20 nm is right out!

Maybe with 14 bolts and a fresh gasket 6 to 10 nm is probably fine. How many folks actually have a 'short' torque wrench that goes that low? I'd wager that most waterpump bolt problems are from PTs (Previous Technicians) that just tightened the bolts by feel.