MGW-Fla

First of all, Ron, YOURE THE MAN!! I dont know ya but I LOVE YA! Thanks to God ABOVE youre here for all of us & you dont take any of the crap! Second of all Mark I have met you & you are FIRST CLASS ALL THE WAY TOO! You are a very easy going & helpful person. I know only what you described in what happened. Maybe he did clock you, I say he lied out his rear. It was 2am, you were the only car around, you drove by him THEN your V1 chirped once. I owned a V1 for over 5 yrs(will get another one once I raised the $$-my other one was stolen). I would swear by my V1, rarely did it leave me hanging. Not that you can rely on it alone & not that they cant spot gun you. He saw you drive by in a fancy sports car, decided right then & there you were getting a ticket & then turned on his gun on you. They know that 99% of the people driving on an Interstate, especially at that hour most likely dont live any where near there, thus its very unlikely they will return to fight the ticket versus just paying it. Thats why he made up the crap about 86, not the 79 you were going. Then after talking to you he back stroked & tried to small talk & be nice cause you are such a nice easy going guy & he realized he was screwin ya. Had you been a young guy or wise guy, he'd have loved nothing better, especially out on the long lonely dark Pinetree Blvd. as you once called it of I-10!

I know a guy who had the only yellow Viper in Jacksonville. He owned it all of 30 minutes & was on a local expressway & was pulled over by a Jax cop. He was a younger 30s good looking guy in a yellow Viper. He asked the cop questioningly... I wasnt speeding officer, why did you pull me over?... Improper lane change was the reply... IMPROPER LANE CHANGE!! He then asked the cop... You wouldnt be pulling me over cause I am a young guy driving a fancy yellow sports car would you?? The cop looked at him and smirked... PROBABLY!!! He paid the ticket. A couple years later he was pulled over again by a local.... the cop gave him a ticket for Speed Excessive for Conditions... since he had not clocked him & he was not even speeding... He remarked to the cop..... Officer, I was not speeding... The reply from the cop... No not this time, but I probably wont be there when you are, so I'll just go ahead & give you the ticket now!!! I asked him did he fight either of the tickets.. He said hell no, I own the only yellow Viper in the city, I dont need the grief!


My son has been stopped several times this past year on I-95 between Jax & Daytona, why?? Cause he has a nice looking Roush Mustang thats why. He's been pulled out of the pack, been made to spread eagle on the hood as theyve searched his car(they found dirty dishes he was bringing home in a cooler..... oohhhhh we know we are safe tonight with such diligence by the cops yes??). He was stopped a few months ago why?? all because of his tint nothing more, so I pulled it off his two windows. Pulling the tint saved me $70 off that ticket. But it gets fun here. The cop told him his license was suspended & kept it, thankfully he had a friend who could drive the car the rest of the way. That was a $115 dollar ticket.

Heres how that came about. He was ticketed a few months prior to that stop for 79 in a 70... after the cop clocked & pulled over a vette for going 109! Told my son he knows he only clocked him at 79 & he was going with the flow, but figured he probably speeds other times & figured he also slowed down when he saw him, so thus he got a ticket too. My son saw the vette fly by & saw the trooper ahead on the shoulder, figured he get the ticket, so he never slowed from the 79 since he was with about 5 other cars. The trooper motioned my son over as he drove past, told him to wait for him, then went after the vette!! Picked my kid out of the pack & no one else! Why... cause he has a fancy looking sports car!

My son isnt perfect by any mean, he has definately had his share of learning about life the hard way. But he isnt a bad kid either. He was recruited for two sports out of high school & is on a full football scholarship & is trying to get a pre-med degree. My son knows how to be respectful to authority when it matters.. Yes Sir Officer, etc....He also knows that he cannot risk tickets so he drives more cautious than most soccer moms in mini vans! That doesnt keep the FHP from giving the tickets but keeps it at the minimum they know they can get away with. Has made him so paranoid about driving on our interstates here that he wanted to sell his car earlier this year cause he felt persecuted.

Anyways, that ticket for 79 in a 70 cost about $80. I sent in the check ten days before the 30 day deadline. Flagler County Clerk of the Court sent it back & said they didnt receive it in time & I owed another $18... how convenient! SO I sent them the $18 ransom! We received a letter from the Clerk of the Court saying all was good n payed & the ticket was cleared. A few days later, we receive a letter from the state DMV saying the ticket was outstanding & his license would be suspended if it wasnt payed. Stupid me, I figure, hey, it crossed in the mail, I have the letter from the County saying it was payed, surely they sent a notice to the state DMV. I told him to keep both letters in his glove box just in case. Well.... the cop in the tint stop read both letters & said yeah I see it was paid, but you still show as having a suspended license, so thank you very much I hang on to it for you. After speaking to the Clerks of the Courts in three different counties(the 1st ticket, the 2nd ticket & the county he lives in), it came down to this. Apparently, even though in our modern technological world, where they can tell you how many hairs are on a water buffalo's butt have way round the world in a matter of seconds, the County Clerks of the Courts do not correspond with the State DMV to provide such notices... (somehow they let them know when you get the ticket, but not when its paid!) I was told by the county of the 1st ticket, "Oh we put a yellow sticky note on the letter we sent you clearing the ticket telling you to then take the letter to your local DMV to clear it from their records!" HELLO... NO YELLOW STICKY ON MY LETTER!! I suggested maybe they might make that part of the actual letter & they replied.. Yeah I guess we could do that!

Bottom line, I had to pay that additional $115 ticket for the driving with a suspended license, as much as I didnt want to, as much as I wanted to fight it. Had to drive to the county Clerk of the Court & pay in person just to make damn sure they got their tax! Why didnt I fight it? cause I live in one county, my son lives in another, the two tickets were in two other counties.. & in trying to keep a small business afloat, it cost me enough just to clear it all out! All for two days difference between when they sent the letter to the state DMV showing it as unpaid & when they said they received the $18 additional ransom! And all this cause he was going 79 in a 70 & his tinted windows & two sets of A$$hole troopers profiling him cause of how his car LOOKS, not cause of anything in particular that he did or didnt do to get pulled over!

I hope you fight it Mark if you can, sounds like another case of them exercising their Gestopo tactics on us as they wish & how they wish against who they wish! I know I get mad as hell when I think about my sons recent situations.

Tony

This is where a cheap digital voice recorder would be handy to have. Before you stop, turn it on.

jyoon

i agree with the "I've got it coming" idea. i've sped so many times and have gone way to fast before and not gotten caught. so when i get a ticket i know i deserve it regardless of what it's for and i'll pay it withought too much thought.

Ron_H

I have a tiny tape recorder that fits in the door pocket just for such instances. Remember to inform the bear that you are recording the whole event. Watch how polite he becomes. I got the idea from a stop in Oregon and the trooper informing me he was recording the whole thing from the cruiser. I was able to gain a copy of the tape through discovery and some aspects reinforced my case.

I have an idea jyoon: why not mail in a "fine" every month since you know you are such a transgressor and an evil person? Hey, that would do your conscience good and you could sleep at night knowing the ever-watchful smokey bears in their infinite wisdom would be satisfied and well paid for their concern. Hey, how about this idea: if I told you that the speed limits have nothing whatsoever to do with safety, but in reality are deliberately set lower than what will facilitate safe flow, with full knowledge that more accidents will thus occur and more tickets will thereby be written, would you still want to pay your fine for your imagined transgressions? What if I told you that engineering studies are frequently performed in ways that will result in limits that are also too low to realistically allow traffic to flow and thereby create more revenue for the state, contrary to sound engineering practice mandated by law? Sounds to me that you think you should beat yourself up for having sexual thoughts every time an attractive lady walks by. Sounds like a case of "medieval-itis" to me. Spend the money on a shrink. It will be better spent.
Get this point if nothing else: the state KNOWS you are going to exceed the posted limits; the state PLANS on you doing it; I have been told that by engineers who have deliberately set the limits below safe-for-flow levels, knowing more accidents will occur, and more revenue will be generated for them. Yes, I think you should spend your money on a shrink.

Let me ask you this: Why are Porsches designed and built the way they are? So we can benefit by having available a machine that may safely be operated at a higher sustained speed than other vehicles or so that the state can penalize the potential ability of the machine and its operator in a jealous rage, while less fit machines push the limit of their safe operating range unnoticed?
Perhaps we should make well educated persons pay a tax for having the ability to speak more effectively and thereby communicate more efficiently, while lazy or underprivileged persons pass by unnoticed. How about persons who have made the effort to expand their physical and mental limits to the point of excelling at physical activities (sometimes called "athletes") relative to other
persons who for some reason or another have not? Should those people be penalized or pay a tax for their excellent behavioral abilities or habits while the others go unnoticed and continue to ask less of themselves mentally and physically? Yeah, let's pick on those guys right? Let's get 'em for that. They can't be that way. We aren't that way so what gives them the right to be that good? Sure, medieval-itis.

Ya know Mr. jyoon, I certainly would not want you in my foxhole during the Revolutionary War; we would all be sipping tea and asking to be spanked regularly for thinking for ourselves.

Robert_H

You know Ron, while I do agree that there are times when a ticket should be fought, there are also times when a law IS being broken. I love driving in my Porsches, at speeds for which they were designed... but if I get caught during one of those times, I take full responsibility. I don't rely on our screwed up legal system to get me off.

There are opinions other than yours. That is also because of the Revolutionary War...

Rob

Ron_H

I must agree with you. Bet that shocks you. I don't make a habit of driving 50 mph through a school zone or other absurd things I see every day happening on the streets and freeways. Many many things that make driving hazardous. And I agree with your statement about the Revolutionary War. You must be allowed to express it. I simply know that feeling guilty for a behavior that is not unsafe on its face and is performed regularly but deliberately condemned without objective justification doesn't make sense. If you want to be punished for that, I think that is reason for concern. There are those among us who want to be punished for something, anything, regularly. They need an authoritarian figure overseeing and disapproving of their behavior. They want to feel inadequate. I don't like those people. They set their standards according to the lowest common denominator; it is safer that way. And they want uniformity in everything and question nothing. They think they are "bad", but what's worse is that they think others are also "bad". They take no personal responsibility for their actions and want me to do the same.

Authority acting not contrary to public trust and on sound foundation is justified; authority abusing public trust is not justified. Mark's bust was not justified. This country is founded on the belief that the accuser shall be on sound foundation before accusing anyone, (it is better to let a guilty man walk freely than to jail an innocent man), and also on the basic nobility of all despite momentary lapses in personal responsibility. Of course everyone breasks the speed limits once in awhile. If that were not true, why would we need speedometers on our vehicles? To allow us to monitor our speed of course and thereby to make corrections if necessary. That doesn't make us all criminals. Absent criminal intent, no crime has been committed. Living in California, you should know that statement is written into the California penal code. But if you feel you are a criminal and want to send in a "fine" for that behavior in which you admit you engage every day, I think that is a bit strange. Does the payment of the fine absolve you of guilt? Will you alter your behavior by being fined regularly or periodically? If you feel it is a crime, cease behaving that way, sell your P car, buy an Isetta or a bycyckle or walk. (I did once for 10 years.) But don't try to convince me that exceeding an illegally set and enforced abitrary speed limit is unsafe. Because it is not necessarily so, and has been proven to be quite the contrary, both in the United States and other countries. In fact, it has been proven to be quite deadly.

Nice speaking with you Modeler.

Robert_H

Ron,

Pretty interesting points you bring up. I definitely agree with you on the entire "people feeling bad" scheme of things. I will never say that exceeding the speed limit is unsafe, just basically at your own risk (legality-wise). By the way, I think an Isetta is probably worth more than my 928...

Rob

Mark

Rob - Re-read my original post. WERE I going 86 - I'd take the driving school, pay the fine and be done with it. BUT - I was NOT going 86! And I will not 'lay down' and relent to the way the system expects me to act.

As to the "Speed Limits" - I sincerely wish there was some way to better accomodate better drivers and cars.
Which is safer....me in one of my P-cars....an accomplished AX'er and DE instructor - at 86 on the interstate...or soccer mom in a Kia minivan, talking on a cell phone, dealing with 5 screaming kids going the "speed limit" on the same interstate???

RON - Sorry we have been unable to connect. I was out of town all last week and had some family things I needed to do over the weekend. I am back out of town for the next 7 days - but will try to hook up with you upon my return next week. Thanks again for your help and support!

jyoon

Ya know Mr. jyoon, I certainly would not want you in my foxhole during the Revolutionary War; we would all be sipping tea and asking to be spanked regularly for thinking for ourselves.[/QUOTE]

now why do you have to hurt my fealings?

Mark

Probably has something to do with you accusing me of a 'crime' I did not commit! Had you actually READ the entireity of my original post - you would know that I was NOT going 86mph.
Your post: "dude you were speeding and got caught. pay the ticket and get on with life."

Ron_H

You know, this is about a deeper issue. This is about the attitude that certain animals have no right to be capable and posses more honed abilities than other animals. Some animals fear horribly any perceived requirement demanding more than basic moronic alertness levels. They seek to destroy anything that displays prowess beyond infantily. They seek the protection of the crib and safety from danger of any sort whatsoever. Eliminate all danger and we shall be in Nirvana, and destroy anything that can cope with natural challenges. Smooth roads and sidewalks so we don't have to watch our steps.
Hide from the weather so we will lose our hides and remain bald infants clothed in layers of stolen fur against the chill of a breeze. Constant climate control to avoid exposure to the wind. And someone constantly reminding us that we might stumble on a pebble and break our ankle, just like our parents did when we were infants. We maintain a constant state of vulnerability, like infants, unable to evolve into the magnificent animals we really are, and guarded all the while by other infants never allowing ourselves or them to know their full potential as creatures on the Earth. We have, as Normy put it, de-evolved. And we condemn any other creature who dares display personal abilities beyond our own, because exercising those abilities might make life dangerous for us and also make us "animals". We will hunt those animals down and kill them off with a jealous vengence for the audacity of being able to fend for themselves. We have atrophied into a jelly-like sensory- compromised blob approaching the lower limit of being defined as a "fit" animal . And then we ask for a "cure" for our degenerative physical diseases, the likes of which the world has never known in such sustained and comprehensive levels, and particularly concentrated in industrialized societies.
I don't expect to fetch thunderous applause for this rant. Just think about it for awhile. Do you really want a guarantee of no danger whatsoever in your life? Do you really want to be of one mind, one body and one purpose and ability, all of us all of the time? Uniformity ad nauseum. An army of ants....or sheeple.

Ron_H

Mark, there is a way to accomodate both driver's intentions and abilities. Ask Nicole to describe it to you. When I was driving in Germany in a VW, I STAYED in the right lane except to pass and then only after checking thoroughly. Pass on the right and she says the police will jerk your license on the spot. Hog the fast lane and get busted. It seems to me that driving there requires a driver to be alert and possess a vehicle capable of superior performace. Duh! I think Darwin put it best.

Mr. Jyoon, please don't feel hurt, just cease feeling guilty.

As Ayn Rand put it, live according to the best within us. Ask more of yourself and don't tolerate less from lesser thinking individuals.

Robert_H

Mark,

I agree with you 100%. In what I wrote I never said that you were quilty. The thing that makes me bristle is the perception that whenever any one of us gets a ticket, it is unjustified. People start comparing the officers to the Gestapo, that kind of thing. There are times when tickets are justified. Now personally, if I were an officer I would more likely target some person recklessly changing lanes than some driver going slightly faster than the limit in a sportscar. I agree that the Minivan driver should get the ticket (in your example above).

Rob

jyoon

sorry, thought it was good advice.

MGW-Fla

hmmm so sorry to make you "bristle" with your misperception of what I was talking about & guessing you are quoting me outta text here.... I never said that anytime someone gets a ticket its unjustified & I never said my son has never driven above the posted speed limit. I am saying that in Mark's case & in my son's recent ones, they were singled out because of the car they were driving, that was the deciding factor. If you are saying that you think that cops never over exert their authority or never profile for any number of reasons(in my comments its based on how the car looks, not how it is being driven), then I want to know where you live cause that must be the twilight zone. They dont call it Arrest Me Red for nothing. Yes there are very good officers of the law, I know some personally. And YES there are so very bad ones too, I also know some of them personally as well. Im sure its a profession not much different from most others in that regard. Sorry if what I said came out as a complete slam against them, just think Mark was singled out soley cause it was late, he was the only car on the road & he was driving a Porsche, so he must have been speeding right? That soccer mom in the mini van probably would not have been stopped as Mark was.