SPEEDING TICKET - WITH A V1!
10-21-2005, 05:45 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Mark
I have the LATEST V1. And - I spoke to V1 on the phone. The deputy had indicated that he had my speed 'locked' on the unit. The folks at V1 told me that the POP will NOT hold/lock the speed.
Also - it was NOT from behind. He was facing me when he supposedly clocked me. In fact, the ticket has a comment of "Stat. radar - front antenna"
Also - it was NOT from behind. He was facing me when he supposedly clocked me. In fact, the ticket has a comment of "Stat. radar - front antenna"
Also note that these guys lie all the time. If he did have a speed locked on the gun, it may not have been your speed...
10-21-2005, 05:49 PM
#17
I see a Sherriff Deputy sitting under a bridge in the middle.
10-21-2005, 05:53 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by SharkSkin
Looks like he is referring to HIS front antenna. Was he facing toward you as you approached?
Also note that these guys lie all the time. If he did have a speed locked on the gun, it may not have been your speed...
Also note that these guys lie all the time. If he did have a speed locked on the gun, it may not have been your speed...
Yea - even the V1 folks said that may not have been my speed - BUT - how do I prove this in court????
10-21-2005, 05:59 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by Greggles
I've read that using radar in/around an overpass generates fasle radar readings. I'll try to footnote later tonight if that helps.
TIA
10-21-2005, 05:59 PM
#20
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There is a book on how to beat a speeding ticket that is written by a cop. He was being interviewed once on television and the one thing that has always stuck with me was this. Make sure you get the serial number of the radar gun that the L.E.O. is using. In court you can question the length of time since the unit has been calibrated etc. He also noted that in some states the cop will be required to bring the unit into the courtroom and that most law enforcement agencies had a radar unit that was set aside for this purpose. If the s/n doesn't match then you would walk. I'm not sure if that part is still true as this was a few years ago but it would be worth getting the book. Here are a few links that may help.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_...peeding_ticket
http://www.ticketkiller.com/
The best way to beat one is NOT to get one, so we'll deal with that first.
WHAT NOT TO DO:
1. Don't act like a dick. If you act like a belligerent idiot, you will end up with a lot more than just a speeding ticket. More likely you will end up in jail with your car impounded!
2. Do not admit guilt. Say nothing, if possible. The cop can use your admission against you in court. Better to say nothing or act dumb (see below)
WHAT YOU MUST DO:
1. Say "yes Officer, no Officer" to everything. You want this over with - fast!
2. Act stupid. It helps, even cops don't want to torture the stupid!
3. Act scared! As if the tickets means the end of your life! Again, cops waver at this point. They may not write it if they feel sorry for you.
4. Act ignorant about what you did. Even if they give you a ticket at least you didn't admit you were speeding, which they will use in court against you later.
IF YOU GET A TICKET:
1. Don't argue the situation out on the road - you will not win! You don't want them to remember you when you do go to court. SAY NOTHING - then drive away.
2. Remember everything about the situation! How much traffic, the weather, which lane you were in. Write it down if you are too stoned to remember this stuff.
AFTER YOU GET THE TICKET/PRE-TRIAL PLEA OR APPEARANCE
1. Always plead 'not guilty.' This may be a pre-trial appearance, or you may be able to send in the ticket with 'not guilty' plea. Try to delay a pre-trial appearance if possible. There will be a specified date if you have to mail in the plea.
AS THE COURT DATE APPROACHES:
1. Very important. DELAY, DELAY, DELAY!!!!!! Keep putting off that court date! You don't want to go to court! You want to make it so the cop thinks the case is so far in the past he'll never remember anything. A small story: When John Hussar, the director of The Blur of Insanity went to college he got a speeding ticket (90 mph in a 55 mph zone) from a New York State Trooper. He successfully put off going to court for two and a half years (mainly by lying about going on various trips to Europe)!! When he final did show up in court he discovered that the Trooper had been transferred out of the area! The case was immediately dismissed!
The Lesson? The longer you wait the better chance the cop won't show up!
2. Request information (optional, it can work for you, or make them want to nail you more!) Also they may or may not give you any of this depending on local laws!:
a.Copies of manufacturers names, including makes, models and serial numbers of all radar/laser guns in use by the Town/City/State Police Department.
b. Copies of manufacturers recommended maintenance for all of the above stated radar guns.
c. Copies of any manufacturer literature as it relates to the correct use, including but not limited to mounting, aiming, weather and traffic limitations, for all radar guns in use by the Town/City/State Police Department.
d. A copy of the past six months' maintenance records for all of the above stated radar guns, including, but not limited to, calibration specifications.
e. A copy of the Authorized Certification of Training, issued to the Officer who gave you the ticket, in the proper use of all radar guns in use by that Town/City/State Police Department he/she works for.
f. A copy of the patrol car assignments for the date you got the ticket.
This should give you something to work with, and also make the cop not want to show up to deal with all this crap!
COURT - A FRIGHTENING PLACE
What happens in court:
Go check in with the clerk.
See if your officer arrives, if he doesn't that will often be the end right there.
The judge will call your case.
The officer will testify first.
You then question the officer
You then call any witnesses you have
The officer can make a closing statement
You can make a closing statement
The judge decides.
1. Wear a suit, if you own one. If you look like a derelict, you will be treated like a derelict. We don't care if you think that is unfair! The world is not fair - grow up.
2. Be nice. Again, being a dick will just get you in trouble and solves nothing.
3. IT is the officers duty to prove you GUILTY. If he fails to prove your guilt the case will be dismissed.
BE confident that you will win the case!
Check the actual wording of the code you violated. If the officer fails to prove guilt in any part of the code then you should be dismissed.
BEFORE an officer can use the radar/laser reading as evidence, he has to establish a few things Jurisdiction Certification, up to date, accurate, traffic and engineering survey, radar/laser properly calibrated, tuning forks calibrated (with radar), FCC license, radar/laser unit appears on that FCC license
If the officer attempts to use the radar reading before establishing those things above, politely interrupt and say "objection your honor, inadmissible evidence."
Then tell the judge why. If the officer fails to prove your guilt at the end of his testimony don't question him, move to have the case dismissed. And explain what he failed to prove.
If the officer was moving when was his speedometer last calibrated? Have the records to see if he contradicts himself. If officer guesses your speed. throw something and ask him how fast it was going. If he is off by 3 MPH at 15 MPH speed then think about how far off he is at 35 MPH.
Were the speed limits prima facie? or Absolute? If prima facie then prove the speed you were traveling at wasn't unsafe.
ASK questions like: what color clothes was I wearing? did I have any passengers?
What was the weather like? To see how well versed the officer is.
See if you can attend traffic school in exchange for a dismissal of the charge (never bothers your insurance.)
OFTEN the worst part of a ticket is the increase in your insurance. By beating the ticket you don't have to worry about that...
Hopefully the cop won't show up - in which case you will ask that the case be dismissed - 99% of the time it will.
Anyway - there you have it. Good Luck. And if you beat a speeding ticket with any of this advice you have to make ten people you know go and see the movie!
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_...peeding_ticket
http://www.ticketkiller.com/
The best way to beat one is NOT to get one, so we'll deal with that first.
WHAT NOT TO DO:
1. Don't act like a dick. If you act like a belligerent idiot, you will end up with a lot more than just a speeding ticket. More likely you will end up in jail with your car impounded!
2. Do not admit guilt. Say nothing, if possible. The cop can use your admission against you in court. Better to say nothing or act dumb (see below)
WHAT YOU MUST DO:
1. Say "yes Officer, no Officer" to everything. You want this over with - fast!
2. Act stupid. It helps, even cops don't want to torture the stupid!
3. Act scared! As if the tickets means the end of your life! Again, cops waver at this point. They may not write it if they feel sorry for you.
4. Act ignorant about what you did. Even if they give you a ticket at least you didn't admit you were speeding, which they will use in court against you later.
IF YOU GET A TICKET:
1. Don't argue the situation out on the road - you will not win! You don't want them to remember you when you do go to court. SAY NOTHING - then drive away.
2. Remember everything about the situation! How much traffic, the weather, which lane you were in. Write it down if you are too stoned to remember this stuff.
AFTER YOU GET THE TICKET/PRE-TRIAL PLEA OR APPEARANCE
1. Always plead 'not guilty.' This may be a pre-trial appearance, or you may be able to send in the ticket with 'not guilty' plea. Try to delay a pre-trial appearance if possible. There will be a specified date if you have to mail in the plea.
AS THE COURT DATE APPROACHES:
1. Very important. DELAY, DELAY, DELAY!!!!!! Keep putting off that court date! You don't want to go to court! You want to make it so the cop thinks the case is so far in the past he'll never remember anything. A small story: When John Hussar, the director of The Blur of Insanity went to college he got a speeding ticket (90 mph in a 55 mph zone) from a New York State Trooper. He successfully put off going to court for two and a half years (mainly by lying about going on various trips to Europe)!! When he final did show up in court he discovered that the Trooper had been transferred out of the area! The case was immediately dismissed!
The Lesson? The longer you wait the better chance the cop won't show up!
2. Request information (optional, it can work for you, or make them want to nail you more!) Also they may or may not give you any of this depending on local laws!:
a.Copies of manufacturers names, including makes, models and serial numbers of all radar/laser guns in use by the Town/City/State Police Department.
b. Copies of manufacturers recommended maintenance for all of the above stated radar guns.
c. Copies of any manufacturer literature as it relates to the correct use, including but not limited to mounting, aiming, weather and traffic limitations, for all radar guns in use by the Town/City/State Police Department.
d. A copy of the past six months' maintenance records for all of the above stated radar guns, including, but not limited to, calibration specifications.
e. A copy of the Authorized Certification of Training, issued to the Officer who gave you the ticket, in the proper use of all radar guns in use by that Town/City/State Police Department he/she works for.
f. A copy of the patrol car assignments for the date you got the ticket.
This should give you something to work with, and also make the cop not want to show up to deal with all this crap!
COURT - A FRIGHTENING PLACE
What happens in court:
Go check in with the clerk.
See if your officer arrives, if he doesn't that will often be the end right there.
The judge will call your case.
The officer will testify first.
You then question the officer
You then call any witnesses you have
The officer can make a closing statement
You can make a closing statement
The judge decides.
1. Wear a suit, if you own one. If you look like a derelict, you will be treated like a derelict. We don't care if you think that is unfair! The world is not fair - grow up.
2. Be nice. Again, being a dick will just get you in trouble and solves nothing.
3. IT is the officers duty to prove you GUILTY. If he fails to prove your guilt the case will be dismissed.
BE confident that you will win the case!
Check the actual wording of the code you violated. If the officer fails to prove guilt in any part of the code then you should be dismissed.
BEFORE an officer can use the radar/laser reading as evidence, he has to establish a few things Jurisdiction Certification, up to date, accurate, traffic and engineering survey, radar/laser properly calibrated, tuning forks calibrated (with radar), FCC license, radar/laser unit appears on that FCC license
If the officer attempts to use the radar reading before establishing those things above, politely interrupt and say "objection your honor, inadmissible evidence."
Then tell the judge why. If the officer fails to prove your guilt at the end of his testimony don't question him, move to have the case dismissed. And explain what he failed to prove.
If the officer was moving when was his speedometer last calibrated? Have the records to see if he contradicts himself. If officer guesses your speed. throw something and ask him how fast it was going. If he is off by 3 MPH at 15 MPH speed then think about how far off he is at 35 MPH.
Were the speed limits prima facie? or Absolute? If prima facie then prove the speed you were traveling at wasn't unsafe.
ASK questions like: what color clothes was I wearing? did I have any passengers?
What was the weather like? To see how well versed the officer is.
See if you can attend traffic school in exchange for a dismissal of the charge (never bothers your insurance.)
OFTEN the worst part of a ticket is the increase in your insurance. By beating the ticket you don't have to worry about that...
Hopefully the cop won't show up - in which case you will ask that the case be dismissed - 99% of the time it will.
Anyway - there you have it. Good Luck. And if you beat a speeding ticket with any of this advice you have to make ten people you know go and see the movie!
10-21-2005, 06:00 PM
#21
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Get hold of the tickets he wrote immediately before and after yours. If he wrote any based on the stored 86, you can cast doubt on the fact that he pulled the trigger on you. It's an easy mistake for a 2AM sleeping officer-- Unit beeps, he sees only you, he looks at the reading he had locked in five tickets ago, and bang-- you're gulity! is there any chance he 'forgot' to pull the trigger, and that's why your V-1 failed to warn you? Send the unit in for testing, and hope it passes fine. Explain to the court that you were using it, and it never made a sound. Ergo, he forgot to clock you and used the store reading.
You have a right to see the other tickets' info as part of discovery. Let them pee a little in their pant when you suggest, during discovery, that they might need to refund EVERY TICKET in that sequence. Odds are then that the officer won't show at trial.
You have a right to see the other tickets' info as part of discovery. Let them pee a little in their pant when you suggest, during discovery, that they might need to refund EVERY TICKET in that sequence. Odds are then that the officer won't show at trial.
10-21-2005, 07:12 PM
#22
928 Barrister
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Here I am. I must do this quickly 'cause I have meetings all afternoon.
Well, what a shock !! A policeman that lied.
First, DO NOT assume your ticket will be dismissed because the cop failed to prove you guilty. The judge decides if he proved it, whether or not he actually legally proved it. What you want to do is set the stage for an appeal IF you need it.
What Dr. Bob meant was to include a request in your discovery motion for a copy of previous and subsequent citations written by the officer. The court may or may not grant them to you, but then you have grounds for an appeal.
Be extremely observant of the procedure for discovery, and try to force an error by the court. I am not in Florida, so check for the time limit for answering discovery. In California it is within 15 days or within 30 days of trial to allow you to prepare for trial. Serve your informal discovery motion the day of the arraignment and DO NOT waive your right to a speedy trial. Think about that for a minute. Force the error.
You can discover the make/model/serial no. of the radar unit by the discovery process. What was said earlier in this thread about calibration and cerification referred to foundation of the evidence. No foundation = hearsay=dismissed. You want to do this quietly and sneak up on them 'cause they will see it coming. PM me for details. No time now.
The reading must be made within 15 degrees, not 45 degrees. You must prove he violated that rule, and I did it by measuring the distances and doing the math. That is time consuming but the prosecution bought it and so did the appeal court. And don't listen to any bs about a greater angle helping you; the rules be the rules. They have accused you of a crime, and must follow strict evidentiary procedures to prove it or you walk. Ask O.J.
The most important thing for you to do right now (immediately if not sooner) is to sit down and recreate the entire scene and experience in your mind. Then write down everything you can remember about the event. Be specific about any conversation with the officer. Then go take photos of the site from your perspective, and from his. Make notes about conditions and lines of sight and details like foilage and signs and obstructions and angles. Measure them if possible and make a drawing; where you were when he first saw you and you saw him; where you were after he gave chase, etc. Any details, including time speed and distance. He may be lying, but you must prove it with the math.
Don't underestimate this step. (Note: never let him get you into an involved conversation. He is trained to get you to admit guilt one way or the other and everything you say WILL be noted by him probably on the back of the ticket a copy of which you will request in discovery. Silence is golden. ALWAYS ask to see the gun readout. No it is the only evidence, save the cop's word, the state has against you. No evidence available for your examination before trial = no case and you walk.)
This case pisses me off. I must earn a living, but I'll be back. PM me if you want. I can find someone in Florida for you.
Well, what a shock !! A policeman that lied.
First, DO NOT assume your ticket will be dismissed because the cop failed to prove you guilty. The judge decides if he proved it, whether or not he actually legally proved it. What you want to do is set the stage for an appeal IF you need it.
What Dr. Bob meant was to include a request in your discovery motion for a copy of previous and subsequent citations written by the officer. The court may or may not grant them to you, but then you have grounds for an appeal.
Be extremely observant of the procedure for discovery, and try to force an error by the court. I am not in Florida, so check for the time limit for answering discovery. In California it is within 15 days or within 30 days of trial to allow you to prepare for trial. Serve your informal discovery motion the day of the arraignment and DO NOT waive your right to a speedy trial. Think about that for a minute. Force the error.
You can discover the make/model/serial no. of the radar unit by the discovery process. What was said earlier in this thread about calibration and cerification referred to foundation of the evidence. No foundation = hearsay=dismissed. You want to do this quietly and sneak up on them 'cause they will see it coming. PM me for details. No time now.
The reading must be made within 15 degrees, not 45 degrees. You must prove he violated that rule, and I did it by measuring the distances and doing the math. That is time consuming but the prosecution bought it and so did the appeal court. And don't listen to any bs about a greater angle helping you; the rules be the rules. They have accused you of a crime, and must follow strict evidentiary procedures to prove it or you walk. Ask O.J.
The most important thing for you to do right now (immediately if not sooner) is to sit down and recreate the entire scene and experience in your mind. Then write down everything you can remember about the event. Be specific about any conversation with the officer. Then go take photos of the site from your perspective, and from his. Make notes about conditions and lines of sight and details like foilage and signs and obstructions and angles. Measure them if possible and make a drawing; where you were when he first saw you and you saw him; where you were after he gave chase, etc. Any details, including time speed and distance. He may be lying, but you must prove it with the math.
Don't underestimate this step. (Note: never let him get you into an involved conversation. He is trained to get you to admit guilt one way or the other and everything you say WILL be noted by him probably on the back of the ticket a copy of which you will request in discovery. Silence is golden. ALWAYS ask to see the gun readout. No it is the only evidence, save the cop's word, the state has against you. No evidence available for your examination before trial = no case and you walk.)
This case pisses me off. I must earn a living, but I'll be back. PM me if you want. I can find someone in Florida for you.
10-21-2005, 07:52 PM
#23
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I have used the ticketclinic.com and it was always successful. I recently posted about a similar incident, but that case is still pending.
The three times I have used them over the past ten years, I never had to go to court myself and it was always dismissed. They don't even want to hear any details on small tickets like that... They just get them dismissed.
The three times I have used them over the past ten years, I never had to go to court myself and it was always dismissed. They don't even want to hear any details on small tickets like that... They just get them dismissed.
10-22-2005, 01:23 AM
#24
928 Barrister
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OK, I checked this with an expert on radar speed detection, and the angle of 45 degrees would have resulted in an unacceptable error, but at any rate, at least much LESS speed than he claimed. Prove the angle and you walk. I have arranged for Mark to be counseled by a national speed defense expert. This is an outrage, but not unusual.
Another thing I forgot in my haste this afternoon is to get a photo of the signs in the area, and particularly the speed limit sign and its mounting location. Very important. Please send it to me.
Further information needed: The instruction manual for POP units states that they are not to be used for enforcement. Ask the officer to read that section of the manual aloud in court. Then prepare for the dismissal.
Another point: radar speed measuring devices are not to be used in conditions when the relative humidity is above 90%. Ask the officer if he knew the humidity that evening. If he did not, he is incompetent as a witness. Prepare for the dismissal. That requirement is in the operating instructions for the particular unit.
Ask the nice officer if visual estimation of speed is a requirement before using radar to verify that estimation. If it is, ask him to explain how he did it and for how long? And then ask the POP questions. Prepare for the dismissal.
Another thing I forgot in my haste this afternoon is to get a photo of the signs in the area, and particularly the speed limit sign and its mounting location. Very important. Please send it to me.
Further information needed: The instruction manual for POP units states that they are not to be used for enforcement. Ask the officer to read that section of the manual aloud in court. Then prepare for the dismissal.
Another point: radar speed measuring devices are not to be used in conditions when the relative humidity is above 90%. Ask the officer if he knew the humidity that evening. If he did not, he is incompetent as a witness. Prepare for the dismissal. That requirement is in the operating instructions for the particular unit.
Ask the nice officer if visual estimation of speed is a requirement before using radar to verify that estimation. If it is, ask him to explain how he did it and for how long? And then ask the POP questions. Prepare for the dismissal.
Last edited by Ron_H; 10-22-2005 at 02:02 AM.
10-22-2005, 02:06 AM
#26
928 Barrister
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DUDE !! You are totally incorrect. Mark is not guilty of anything until it has been proven that he is in a court of law, and that decision is subject to appeal.
Do you know he was "speeding"? There is no such thing as "speeding". Were you there? Are you qualified to judge with the information furnished so far?
Sheesh!! I respectfully ask you to re-consider your hastily formed opinion, or perhaps search for a totalitarian state in which to reside.
Do you know he was "speeding"? There is no such thing as "speeding". Were you there? Are you qualified to judge with the information furnished so far?
Sheesh!! I respectfully ask you to re-consider your hastily formed opinion, or perhaps search for a totalitarian state in which to reside.
10-22-2005, 03:31 AM
#27
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I have seen this before with Valen tine One, very similar. I believe the unit is not bad but nowhere near the best. A real weakness is that it does not cover each corner of the car.
Now, it is about 80% certain IMHO that he was lying. I've had them lie too, I knew it and was unable to do anything about it .... because I had actually been 20mph faster than he had said ....
Now, it is about 80% certain IMHO that he was lying. I've had them lie too, I knew it and was unable to do anything about it .... because I had actually been 20mph faster than he had said ....
10-22-2005, 09:53 AM
#28
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Has the V1 been changed or improved in recent years? I recall looking into them a couple years or more back and read a comparison test (sorry I cant remember where) that the V1 clearly did not come out on top in. I really like the features the V1 has that others don't, but from what I gathered at the time the V1 was starting to show its age. I was just curious if it had been improved or changed in recent years.
10-22-2005, 10:48 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Ron_H
Another point: radar speed measuring devices are not to be used in conditions when the relative humidity is above 90%. Ask the officer if he knew the humidity that evening. If he did not, he is incompetent as a witness. Prepare for the dismissal. That requirement is in the operating instructions for the particular unit.
I just got a printout from the NWS for that area. The humidity at the time of the ticket was 93%!!!
10-22-2005, 11:27 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by jyoon
dude you were speeding and got caught. pay the ticket and get on with life.
Re-read my post - I was NOT going 86 in a 70.
IF I got the ticket for 79, I would "pay the ticket and get on with life"....BUT - by the statement of the Deputy - had I been going 79 - he WOUD NOT HAVE STOPPED ME! Also - 86 is more then 15mph over the posted limit. It carries MORE points, a HIGHER fine, and the likelyhood of MUCH higher insurance premiums...for all 3 of my vehicles.