Fabio421

Humor me here, I may be way off base. Why are we limiting this to using water as the cooling medium? While reading my shop manuals I found a refference to a fuel cooler that runs through the A/C condenser. Why couldn't you extend the A/C lines and capacity to include this tube style intercooler? Is there too much added heat to keep the A/C running cool enough for creature comforts? What if there were two condensors piggy backed? That might increase the efficiency of the A/C. Or you could use both the A/C coolant and the water in conjunction with one another. It appears that all of the coolant chambers are seperated and have individual ports for inlets and outlets. Maybe two could be running refrigerant and the rest water.
On a side note. This tube style intercooler, in a longer run, would be well suited to that rear mount turbo design that I posted pics of a few weeks back.
Don't mind me. I'm just trying to think outside the bun...I mean box.

BC

I would think that the amount of power taken by these AC condensors would be too great compared to the effect of cooling the charge.

This intercooler Carl has noted here does have some possibilities. Maybe even shooting the methanol that we must inject anyway here as well as at the throttle plate.

Hmmm.

lorenolson888

There does seem to be a lot of ways to skin the cat and some voodoo invoved with it all

But in the end air is just a mix of gases...

given a set volume of air pumped, the inlet and outlet temps and the inlet and outlet pressure will tell us all that we need to know about these coolers... hopefully they will work well enough but they are a bit pricey... maybe Carl can get a huge deal... like ~$200 a tube or something...

Theoretically, for tuning the car all we need is the pressure and temp at the manifold and volume... as predicted by the universal gas law... the only which works well enough for mixtures of gases... the equation can be solved for n (the number of gas molecules).

Thanks,

LO

Th Dude

Stop showin' off, Lo.

Fabio421

I said condensors not compressors. What "power" would they take?

BC

the compressor running off the engine to run the AC system - you are talking about the original AC system right?

Fabio421

BrendonC...Yes I am talking about the original A/C with maybe an additional evaporator/ condensor . I don't see how that would cause the compressor to draw anymore power from the engine than it normaly would. But I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch of the term. Would the added heat into the refrigerant cause the compressor to run more often. Is that what you mean?
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that they were thinking of adding an additional water pump either mechanical or electric. Both would require some additional power from the engine, although the electric one would require much less through the additional draw on the charging system. My experence with turbo's and intercoolers are limited to diesel engines. In these applications the water to air intercoolers use the same cooling water that runs in the engine. Is that not the case with gasoline engines?

inactiveuser92616

the loss of pwer using the AC to cool the intake is because normal intercoolers, air/air or air/water, use the "free" ambient temp to cool down the compressed air.

BC

I see what you are suggesting, and many others here have hinted at this idea on the boards.

The issue is that when I drive, unless I am in traffic, I rarely run the AC. I would recall if I could the time someone mentioned that almost 30hp is taken with AC on. Or more with some cars. My only point is that would 30hp be gained at the same boost level and hp level with this charge cooling?

I think certain cars IN PRODUCTION use this way of cooling the charge, so who the hell am I to say anything.

blau928

Hi Guys,

Ford has developed such a system that was being tested on their Lightning Truck.. The system uses the A/C to "chill" the cooling liquid (water) that is used in an AWIC. (Nothing has a higher heat absorbtion than water... Unless it has not yet been identified to science.. of course.. Anyway, the system is used as a boost to the parameters of the existing system... Reason is, the water stores the heat removed from the AWIC. The water then gives up the heat to the air by passing through a secondary heat exchanger (radiator) and is then chilled before going into the AWIC to start the cycle all over again.

There has not been any breakthrough to enable the chiller to have such a capacity to chill the water faster than heat from the engine charge is added to the AWIC. In addition, you will need a storage tank to hold the additional water, and incorporate the chiller into this tank..

Unless you have a track car or are willing to give up one of your back seats, in a 928 you do not have that much space. I did quite a bit of research on this with the guy that designed such a system for GNX's, and Ford as well.. It has merits if you have the space...

FYI, drag racers use an ice box and replenish the cooling medium in their AWIC's seconds prior to their run... On a street application, you would need to keep the AC cycle on all the time with a safety that diverts the AC line when the water gets too cold (just before freezing) In addition, you could have condensation on the AWIC, and have water in your engine.... Not to mention freezing the lines and having the circuit for the AWIC blocked... There is also the part that most ECU's shut off the AC compressor at WOT...

It's not that easy to do, but has been done......

HTH,

blau928

The Ford system was able to add an additional 50HP for about 30 seconds before it recharged.. In essence the system functioned like a 50 shot nitrous without having to be refilled...

Tony

"BlownBeast" has been running an A/C cooled intercooler system for over a year now. His is different in the fact that it chills the WATER in the intercooler resivour...this is the water that is then circulated thought the regular air/water intercooler setup.

You can chill a beer on his intercooler after running at boost.
Its perfect for street use.

Carl Fausett

There are limitations to the extrusion process - and there must be a certain core size down the middle to retain the strength in the die. It took almost a year to find a shop that said they could make these dies and draw that tube. Up till then, Dave Lindsey was told that this product was "impossible"

Carl Fausett

Intercooler efficiency is one of the easiest calculations in all of our automotive applications.

The efficiency is defined as the ratio of the temperature removed from the air charge by the intercooler relative to how much temperature is put into the charge by the turbo/supercharger.

For example: If the turbo/supercharger puts 150 degrees F into the charge when compressing the air, and the intercooler removes 110 of those degrees, then the efficiency is:
Eff = 110 / 150 = .733, or 73.3%

Fabio421

BrendenC... I live in steamy FL and A/C is a requirement to me. I guess I am spoiled. I never would have guessed that it would draw 30hp. Thats alot.

Its nice to see that my idea had some merits. Even if someone beat me to it. I fully expected to have lots of holes shot into it and be flamed into submission. Thanks.