I am looking at my interior light relay - the second one I've recently replaced to no avail. I have all interior lights working in both positions, the door alarm goes off when either door is open. The interior lights just won't go on or off when I open to door regardless of light switch position??? Am I interpreting the wiring diagram correctly on the relay - if I jump 31 and 31L will this bypass the relay portion and simply turn the lights on when I open the door and off when I close it? That's the simple solution I'd like.

Thanks in advance to the electrical wizards.

Rod

 

Rod,
I'm confused what the problem is... Just the delay doesn't work or the lights don't come on at all with the doors open - seems you say they work in both positions and then that they don't work with the doors... How did you test the switched mode if the doors didn't work...

Try the trunk - this turns on the lights without using the relay - do they work right?

Assume the door alarm comment means that you know the door switches work but no alarm problems...

If you short 31 & 31L your interior lights will always be on. Instead you could connect T (that connects to the switches) to 31L for behaviour that you wanted - but the pin switches will carry much more current and will probably become more unreliable...

I'd suggest some debug - make sure you get the right relay 928.618.225.01 - it is not a generic part.

Test relay pin T and see that it gets grounded when either door is open..

Alan

 

The light switches work in both positions - turn on and off with either door open or closed. I have gotten a relay - two in fact - from 928 and the last one they supposedly tested prior to sending. No lights come on when I open the rear hatch, but that may be because I have the lights all in the off position. In the forward or backward position, they are not effected by opening or closing the doors. I have closed the doors and waiting for 10-15 minutes to see if the delay is way off, but nothing.

I'll check the relay pin as soon as I can get a chance.

Thanks for the help.

Rod

 

Rod,
OK I understand now. The central position on all the lights is off - they will never come on in this position. One way is always on the other is the switched position (hard to know which is which) - only that position should be influenced by the door pins. Seems to me that something is keeping the lights always on from one of the switches.

My suspicion is the tail switch. Reason - if the doors operate the alarm correctly they must work and switch on and off. The tail is seperate from those and switches the light directly. Test the T pin on the relay as I noted and I'll bet it works just fine....

Take out the tool tray/cover - the tail switch is below the tailgate opening drive. Look for the switch its a very basic arrangement (spring & contact plate - the bottom of the lock pawl pushes down on it to break the contact) - look for any crud to clean-up - if that doesn't help unplug the connection - I think its a brown & white wire (not the one connected to the tailgate unlock drive) - I think there is a quick disconnect connector you can pull off.

I expect your alarm does not work from the tail either for this reason - difficult to test unless you have a non-alarm key?

BTW even with all the interior lights switched off your door end marker lights are presumably on and draining the battery....

Alan

 

You're a genius, but.... I did find that by depressing the rear hatch just a bit more - a quarters thickness, the lights go on when the hatch opens and off when the hatch closes. Now the strange thing is that they still DO NOT come on when I open the doors and they will only go on in the other switch position - always on.

It looks like I have great interior lights as long as I enter and exit through the hatch. ;-) I have to admit it seems a bit cumbersome.

I didn't see a rear hatch switch adjustment, but I only looked briefly. I'm not sure the quarter is a good long term solution.

Well, this is interesting. I noticed after the insertion of the quarter, the interior lights go out when I close the hatch, but the marker lights are also OFF. I removed the quarter and the marker lights come back on but now the interior lights don't go off when I close the hatch or the doors.

More trips to baby's room. I noticed that the passenger side door light, not marker, does not work in any position either with the door open or closed. Could this have any bearing on the situation?

Just out of curiosity, what is the delay supposed to be on the interior light relay?

Thanks for you help so far. Any thoughts about the latest version?

Thanks

Rod

 

Rod,
The GTS does the interior lights through the alarm module not a relay - mine is about 15 seconds - I suspect yours is approx the same. So make sure you wait long enough....

I'll give the new symptoms some thought...

Alan

 

I've waited up to 15 minutes in hopes that it was just a delay problem, but that's apparently not it.

The key for my car is an alarm key, but I've never discovered, in the short time I've owned it, how the alarm works. Is it possible that there is a relationship between the alarm and the interior light system? The buzzer comes on when I open the door and as you indicated, the marker lights remain on when the door closes - I verified by closing the switch while leaving the door open. It seems that everything else is working.

I'll replace the non working door light and see if that has any impact on the problem.

As an aside, I was wondering if I could jump 31L to T and put a rheostat in the line to reduce the load on the pin switches. I am probably exposing my ignorance, but it might be an easy solution since I don't have any real attachment to the delay except to keep the stock quality of the electronics.

I really appreciate your assistance, I guess I'm building up a debt to be repaid to future rennlisters.

Rod

 

Rod,
The marker lights should always be doing the same thing as the interior lights (as long as they are switched to the door control position).

Do fix the interior lamp that doesn't work - for now remove it. Remove the interior light fuse first (trust me you need to do this) use a screw driver in the slot @ one end - pry gently to remove - wiggle end to end - take it really easy - these things get brittle - its just a push fit with sprung ends. Make sure the connections are OK and not loose or broken. If they are - make notes where they go - and if needed tape them up seperately and push them back in the hole till you get a new lamp unit. If its just the bulb get a 12v 10W festoon ~44mm bulb.

Adding a rheosat is a bad idea - the brightness of the bulbs will drop to a useless level before you ever get to reduce the current to a good level and the hatch switch will still make them bright - we need to find the real root cause.

You mentioned the alarm buzzing - it shouldn't 'buzz' it should honk very loudly and only when the alarm is set off... do you have the original factory alarm...

I've got this sinking feeling that maybe an alarm "professional" has been in there.... tell me I'm wrong - please!

Does the buzzer always go off when you open the door?

Alan

Can you disable the alarm?

Test signal T as noted before..

 

Well I have the door courtesy light working and need to test the T terminal on the relay. How do I go about this? I assume you mean to test the fuse panel plug. Do I need to make a small metal probe for the panel terminal?

The door chime or at least a chime goes off whenever I have the doors open with the key in the ignition. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned "buzzer". I guess I'm mixing cars - my others buzz when the key is in the ignition with the door open. I don't have any idea of how I determine if I have an alarm. As I indicated I have an alarm key, but I've never known how to test the alarm if I have one. I've never had an instance where the horn sounds, but I may simply have never set it off. I don't believe an "alarm professional" has ever done anything to the car. I have pretty complete previous owner records and they don't indicate anything along this line.

Incidently my door marker lights never go off. I've depressed the door switch with the door open and they stay on. This seems like a bad idea, especially in light (no pun intended) of winter storage. (I have installed a trickle charge port for winter months.)

I noted that when I use the door pin switch to test the lights, I can feel the relay "click" when I open and when I push the pin switch to simulate closing, I can feel a "click" in the relay about 21 seconds later. This would seem to indicate that the relay may be functioning properly.

I also took an old relay and put a jumper between T and 31L to see if the lights would work that way - as you suggested, but no effect. I hope all of this narrows down the problem. It seems as though there is another agent at work here, but I know just enough to be dangerous.

I'll keep plugging away at it as long as your patience holds out.

Thanks
Rod

 

Rod,
To test the T terminal figure out where it is (look @ the relay printed on diagram and base - usually labelled). You may be able to stick a multimeter probe directly in there - if not get a narrow spade terminal 1/4" or 1/8" as needed and probe to that. You need to check resistance between T and Gnd (Chassis) it should be infinite with doors closed and basically a short with the doors open.

OK forget the chime - just warning you you left the keys in the ignition.

To test the alarm - roll both windows down. Lock the doors. Reach in through the windows and twist the door unlock **** and open the door - did the alarm go off? do both sides... Also try the hatch - you will need to simulate the hatch being closed by pushing down on the switch - you know how - lock the car - then 'open the hatch'.

So let me check now on symptoms. Interior lights are still on all the time in switched mode? (seems you said the door markers are always on and these should be on whenever the switched interior circuit is on....yes?).

Alan

 

Apparently I do have an alarm, but my horn doesn't sound. I tried your recommendation and afterward I could not start the car. I switched out the ignition relay, the LX relay, checked all of the fuses and still nothing.

I tried unlocking the door with the key and presto!! it started. My "alarm" obviously disables the vehicle, it just doesn't sound.

Rod

I'll make a spade and check the T terminal this evening.

 

Rod,
Do check that both doors cause the same behaviour... The alarm has its own horn & maybe someone "disabled it" (snip!). ... someone may have messed with the alarm after all... but at least the ignition disable works.

I'm assuming the lights are still always on in the door control mode...yes? (or do they now NOT come on from the doors?)

I'm a little confused again because the alarm senses the relay output - the same exact point that feeds the door control interior light supply so it seems that must be working (and you can hear the relay operating). Seems the relay is probably OK.

Since the rear hatch switch worked to switch the interior lights - use that to ensure you have all the interior lights switched to the door controlled position. Only test things in this mode - the other positions are meaningless for this debug.

Now with the hatch closed - what happens with each door open/closed - try these & fill out a matrix
for reference (answer is hopefully just On or Off)

Action to try..............................Effect Immediately?...................Effect after 20Sec?
==============================================================
Doors Closed..........................................?....................... ................?
Left Opened............................................?..................... ................N/A
Right Opened..........................................?....................... ..............N/A
Left Opened Then Closed.........................?.......................................?
Right Opened Then Closed.......................?.......................................?
Left Door (closed) Unlock.........................?.......................................?
Right Door (closed) Unlock.......................?.......................................?
Left Door Opened/Closed then Locked.......?......................................N/A
Right Door Opened/Closed then Locked.....?......................................N/A

Understanding this will really help me see whats going on...

Alan

 

TADAAAAAA! After beginning the checks you indicated, I noticed that the rear hatch switch would occasionally NOT shut off the lights. Previously it had seemed to always do so, but now....

I removed the switch from the circuit and after a little experimentation, all of the interior lights will turn on when I open the doors and off after about 30 seconds after I close the doors. I've ordered a replacement.

0B1111101000 thanks (is this right?)

I am now in your debt, you have "paid it forward", so I will henceforth be the "rear hatch - interior light problem" guy. Now on to the next problem. ;-)

Incidently, the interior replacement lights are GE 6411, available at auto stores, if anyone needs immediate replacements.

Rod