Oil Condition Report No 10
02-01-2006, 03:49 PM
#61
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I agree with others. If you read the whole thread you will understand Doug knows oil. I have used Dougs advice for 3 years and have had absolutely 0 issues and doubt I ever will. I will take Doug's advise over anything that was researched 20 years ago.
02-01-2006, 04:05 PM
#62
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Originally Posted by BrendanC
I'll need somebody to drive while I tune the EFI with the laptop when the 78 is done.
Originally Posted by Jim bailey - 928 International
Brendan you are pushing your luck , good thing the North Westerners tend to be more suicidal than homicidal 
02-01-2006, 04:08 PM
#63
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Good comments about ambient temps as well as the unique needs of racers who typically warm the engine completely before going on the track and they really subjecting it to some heat!
02-01-2006, 05:27 PM
#64
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Clarification
Hi,
...P - of course you are entitled to ask questions and to use whatever oil you may chose
I have read the total content of the thread again and I can see no reason whatsoever to add further comment - only some clarification. It has all been said before on RENNLIST. Seeking data by search over the last nearly four years will also perhaps assist you
At 67 I see no need to justify my background!
You may refer to this now outdated document or its later variants for confirmation of much in this thread -"Porsche Technical Information: No 3/04 - E1701" issued in March 2004
As to the actual Porsche test protocols, these are "add ons" to the ACEA tests. Just like those of Mercedes Benz, BMW and VW Audi. In the case of Porsche these tests place a high emphasis on viscosity at both 100C & 150C (the critical HTHS viscosity test point) over prolonged periods. As well their test protocols use the ACEA "instruments" to confirm foaming and volatility controls/performance. There are a number of Porsche minimum standards to be met before Porsche first Approves a specific oil and then officially Lists it!
I had a hand in developing a number of Castrol (and others) products. One of these was Castrols "R" 10w-60 when its formulation changed away from the ester base it commenced with in the 1970s. Previous comments about this product in this thread stand!
Oil analysis is a great tool and I have used it for forty odd years or so. Comparing one oil against another within an engine family via Used Oil Analysis (UOA) is really only possible at the Chemist/Engineer level - at least to get meaningful/accurate results. The spectrographic and other means of testing the sample requires excellent credentials of the individual carrying out the interpretation. Shell and others for example use trackside Labs and Chemists to blend the oil to a particular tarck, car and climate etc. and have done so for some years
UOA is an excellent tool when used to evaluate the oil's condition and (with the right credentials of the intrepreter) can be used to select the best oil for an engine family
I feel no need to offer more comment - it has all been said before
In the end make your own choice and be happy!
Regards
Doug Hillary
...P - of course you are entitled to ask questions and to use whatever oil you may chose
I have read the total content of the thread again and I can see no reason whatsoever to add further comment - only some clarification. It has all been said before on RENNLIST. Seeking data by search over the last nearly four years will also perhaps assist you
At 67 I see no need to justify my background!
You may refer to this now outdated document or its later variants for confirmation of much in this thread -"Porsche Technical Information: No 3/04 - E1701" issued in March 2004
As to the actual Porsche test protocols, these are "add ons" to the ACEA tests. Just like those of Mercedes Benz, BMW and VW Audi. In the case of Porsche these tests place a high emphasis on viscosity at both 100C & 150C (the critical HTHS viscosity test point) over prolonged periods. As well their test protocols use the ACEA "instruments" to confirm foaming and volatility controls/performance. There are a number of Porsche minimum standards to be met before Porsche first Approves a specific oil and then officially Lists it!
I had a hand in developing a number of Castrol (and others) products. One of these was Castrols "R" 10w-60 when its formulation changed away from the ester base it commenced with in the 1970s. Previous comments about this product in this thread stand!
Oil analysis is a great tool and I have used it for forty odd years or so. Comparing one oil against another within an engine family via Used Oil Analysis (UOA) is really only possible at the Chemist/Engineer level - at least to get meaningful/accurate results. The spectrographic and other means of testing the sample requires excellent credentials of the individual carrying out the interpretation. Shell and others for example use trackside Labs and Chemists to blend the oil to a particular tarck, car and climate etc. and have done so for some years
UOA is an excellent tool when used to evaluate the oil's condition and (with the right credentials of the intrepreter) can be used to select the best oil for an engine family
I feel no need to offer more comment - it has all been said before
In the end make your own choice and be happy!
Regards
Doug Hillary
02-01-2006, 10:28 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by heinrich
SHUT UP SUNSHINE BOY 
awwww, yer all wet... BTW, the icon you're looking for might be any of these:
But I think that this one is more appropriate...
02-01-2006, 11:26 PM
#68
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HAHHA Dave you are a friend ... JimB .. Doug is all that. He forgave my impertinence with no more than a "no problem Heinrich" ... gentleman .. in the truest sense.
06-19-2006, 05:08 PM
#70
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
Flott Leben - yes that is my understanding - rebranded, same formulation. Of course Delvac 1 5w-40 still retains that name and would be available from a Mobil Distributor or Truck Stop too
Kind regards
Doug
Flott Leben - yes that is my understanding - rebranded, same formulation. Of course Delvac 1 5w-40 still retains that name and would be available from a Mobil Distributor or Truck Stop too
Kind regards
Doug
06-19-2006, 05:14 PM
#71
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Thanks, Doug. I re-read your post. It is clear - Mobil Delvac 5W-40 = Mobil 1 T&SUV 5W-40 = Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40. All the same formulation but different brandings.
Marketing strategy, I guess.
Marketing strategy, I guess.
Last edited by Flott Leben; 06-19-2006 at 05:55 PM.
06-20-2006, 09:50 PM
#72
Instructor
Doug's advice is always 'spot on'. Look up RedLine and check out the technical specs for all the weights. The 5-40 is exactly like Doug says (I'm not saying he's recommending RedLine by any means)...certainly gives the best of all areas of protection; from 40C pour point, to 150C viscosity. I use this as my 'street oil', and do admit to moving up to the 15/40 for DE events.
Thoughts???
Roland
'91 GT
Thoughts???
Roland
'91 GT
06-21-2006, 12:58 AM
#75
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Hi,
Roland - Thanks - Redline appears to make some very good products, so does Amsoil and a few other boutique blenders too. I think it is a shame that they do not submit their compatible products to Porsche for Approval and the subsequent Listing after passing their test protocols. Some blenders do not seek either API or ACEA Certification or other Manufacturer's Approval either
Some boutique blenders I am sure will make products that may well exceed the performance of those Approved & Listed by Porsche
"S4" - I presume that you have an S4, great stuff
M1 0w-40 is one of the best lubricants made and widely available. It is "the" factory fill at Porsche, MB and a few others too. It is recommended (Approved and Listed) by Porsche (alongside many 5w-40s and M1 5w-50) for all 4,6 and 8cyl engines built after 1973
It should do well in your S4 and a number of 928 users swear by it. I (we all) would be delighted to hear how the engine "feels" after the move from a 20w-50.
You should expect a lower oil pressure at hot idle speed - after around 30minutes or so. Typically 1.5 to 2 Bar is common and normal - you must have 5Bar at 4000rpm (hot). Most people report about 5bar at around 2300rpm and 4bar around 1900-2100rpm
However, if the car is tracked often then an Approved 5w-40 may be better choice at the extremes
Regards
Doug
Roland - Thanks - Redline appears to make some very good products, so does Amsoil and a few other boutique blenders too. I think it is a shame that they do not submit their compatible products to Porsche for Approval and the subsequent Listing after passing their test protocols. Some blenders do not seek either API or ACEA Certification or other Manufacturer's Approval either
Some boutique blenders I am sure will make products that may well exceed the performance of those Approved & Listed by Porsche
"S4" - I presume that you have an S4, great stuff
M1 0w-40 is one of the best lubricants made and widely available. It is "the" factory fill at Porsche, MB and a few others too. It is recommended (Approved and Listed) by Porsche (alongside many 5w-40s and M1 5w-50) for all 4,6 and 8cyl engines built after 1973
It should do well in your S4 and a number of 928 users swear by it. I (we all) would be delighted to hear how the engine "feels" after the move from a 20w-50.
You should expect a lower oil pressure at hot idle speed - after around 30minutes or so. Typically 1.5 to 2 Bar is common and normal - you must have 5Bar at 4000rpm (hot). Most people report about 5bar at around 2300rpm and 4bar around 1900-2100rpm
However, if the car is tracked often then an Approved 5w-40 may be better choice at the extremes
Regards
Doug
Last edited by Doug Hillary; 06-21-2006 at 01:13 AM.