Ron_H

This was received by the NMA office but I don't know precisely what day it was aired. If you were busted by a bear using one of these guns, you may want to investigate the situation a bit further.


" BBC program "Inside Out" tonight will air results of tests of
one of the most popular laser speed detection guns used by police
forces in the US and UK. In the program, a pair of American
specification LTI 20-20 guns, manufactured by Laser Technology
Inc. of Colorado, point at the same moving vehicle but record
substantially different speeds.
The source of the error is well-known. When the aiming point of
the laser gun, which is designed to be hand-held, moves or "slips"
across the target vehicle, an extra distance is either added to or
subtracted from the speed calculation. A tiny movement can add up
to a substantial difference. Engineering Professor John Brignell
describes the amount of motion needed to cause a slip error at a
distance of 500 meters: "Very roughly, without doing any
calculations, we are talking about the camera moving about the
thickness of a human hair."


The hosts of the BBC program were able to clock a stationary car
at 6 MPH. In tests of a moving vehicle, the laser gun produced
erroneous readings almost a third of the time, displaying speeds
that were off by as much as 26 MPH.


The devices can be upgraded and used as mobile speed cameras,
particularly in the UK where an estimated five million drivers
have been convicted based on laser speed readings over the past
five years.


"I am 100 percent certain that these devices are not suitable for
gathering legal evidence of vehicle speeds," said Paul Smith,
founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign. "They make
mistakes and the BBC film proves it. Millions of drivers will be
entitled to refunds, licence points removed and in some cases a
large amount of compensation."

Happy motoring.

Flott Leben

Ron, Any way to get a transcript of the show?

AO

Mr. Ron,
How would one introduce this "evidence" into court in order to mount a credible defense?

Ron_H

I am trying to do a Google search to locate this tape on the BBC. If I am successful, I will post the link. An NMA activist friend is considering how to legally document this information to present as a defense. I am as interested as anyone, and will stay on top of it. We will be back, to quote Ahnald.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/south...-cameras.shtml

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/02/224.asp

http://www.theagitator.com/archives/019495.php

And if you get busted, check here: http://primarylaw.com/primarylaw/for...kets/speeding/

See you later.

mspiegle

Wow, that's crazy! Thanks for the info

Ray S

Great Info.....Thanks!!

IcemanG17

Ron
The bummer is that the research is done in the UK...so it will not stand up in court here in the US It might work if the data is replicated here in the US....
Brian

AO

Ron-
I found SafeSpeed, but there's not much there.
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/pr111.html

Alan '79 928

Ron - Great information. I got ticketed yesterday via laser and plan to go to court (I'm tired of paying attorney fees for them to plead no contest and take the fine). If you get a transcript or legal writeup please post it here.

Also, THANKS for your efforts. The police down here do nothing to discourage running red lights (less $$) but love to camp on open 4 lane roads with artificially low speed limits. What you do is an invaluable contribution to the protection of civil liberties. The sad thing is most people seem content to let them erode.

I am going to join the NMA tonight.

Thanks again,

Alan

Ron_H

Alan, you have a PM.

Andrew, I have contacted the people at SafeSpeed to request supporting data confirming the failings of laser cameras. If any of it is applicable in the US courts I will post that information here.

Ron_H

Here is a response from a UK organization re: use of their data in our courts:

Hi Ron,

Clearly the information will be applicable in the USA. But to convince
a US
court, I rather think you will need US data. I don't know what sort of
position you're in, but a local testing programme is called for.

I believe that we are at the beginning of a huge unfolding story here
in the
UK. There's much much more to come. The device fails the basic test of
trustworthyness required for legal evidence. It's going to take some
serious
effort to convince the authorities to admit that they were wrong. But
it's
really a matter of time, because, clearly they are wrong.

--
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed

web: http://www.safespeed.org.uk
---------------------------------
promoting intelligent road safety

Parnelli Joneser

Car and Driver magazine published an article a couple years ago about a lawyer (in New Jersey IIRC) that fought a laser ticket by refuting the science behind the manufacturer's claims. He was looking to set a precedent that others could refer to in court. You might try looking there for some info.

fraggle

speed cameras generally fail in the US due to heavy lead contamination... at least they do out west here.

Nicole

Is there some serious science behind this?

All I know is that if you have a lead foot, you are more likely to get caught...

Louie928

Nicole
Think about a small piece of lead about the size of a pencil eraser. Now think about that piece of lead smashing into the speed camera at about 1000 feet per second velocity. The camera fails.