jpitman2

I have started this so I have to finish it. Bad in tank filter, loads of dirt in tank, so tank is out and being replaced. Old hoses at 75psi, do them as well. Tired accumulator, do that too.Return hose to tank top not in good condition, order that too. Comes as one complete front to rear hose...mmm that might be tricky to replace?
So far I have unclipped the auto cooler pipes from the body and managed to wriggle the pressure delivery steel line out, having removed the front hose piece as soon as the union was accessible. As for the return line, it snakes under (actaully over, but I mean between the body and ..) the rear cross member and then under the roll bar. Now I can envisage disconnecting the roll bar ends from suspension (hanging) and loosening/removing the roll bar mounts, but will that be enough to get the pipe out without much bending? I not only have to get the old one out, but also get the new one in. In the very worst case I might have to just replace the short hose section and crimp it onto the old pipe I guess....
Has anybody BTDT please? Please bring me good news..
TIA,
jp 83 Euro S AT 49k

gruffalo

I plan do replace my steel lines too, and the tank suspension. There is a company in the UK that sells stainless steel tank harness.

The line in front of the tranny, all the way to the engine is fine, and since it is all one very long piece, I consider cutting, and making my own replacement line from generic copper pipe for all the rear piping.

I'm gonna do this over the winter, so keep me posted on your progress!

MM

SharkSkin

I'd recommend against copper. It will become brittle, fatigue, and finally fail over time as a result of vibration.

gruffalo

well, copper does work for the brakes? why would we expect a problem on the fuel lines?

SharkSkin

You have copper brake lines? You're a braver man than I.... Same problem with that, only now you add heat cycling plus the risk of losing your brakes.

dr bob

I did a casual once-over review of a guy's off-road car a while back. Pretty car, but all the hoses were carefully piped in nylon tubing with swagelock comnpression connectors. Fuel lines, brake lines, vents and drains, all in pretty white nylon. Always-sensitive dr bob suggests that he will be ready to go once he gets all that tempoarry plumbing replaced with the permanent stuff... owner was NOT happy, said that IS the permanent stuff! So a little enlightenment was in order.

Copper tubing isn't used anywhere on a car, except for --maybe-- vacuum tubing and the heat riser tubing that runs from the exhaust manifold to/from the carburetor. Don't know haw that heat riser tubing got by the design QC guys, but it did. As Dave correctly points out, copper has the annoying problem of work-hardening wherever there is a vibration node or flex point. Over time, the harder copper will fracture. That means a leak, and neither fuel nor brake fluid are welcome outside their normal containment.

In the meanwhile, steel brakeline tubing is cheaper than copper anyway, at least in SAE dimensions. Metric stuff is a little higher, but not much. For connections, the tubing is sold in various lengths with flare nuts already installed and the ends already flared. You can bend small-bore tubing with a relatively inexpensive mandrel bender, or spend a little more to get the lever-type bender that goes a little faster and is more precise.

If you need a custom length, buy a longer piece, cut it, and plan on a double-flare connection. Don't even bother with hardware-store single-flare tools for this. A double-flare is much stronger, and resistant to fatigue cracks in the sealing face of the flareed tubing. Spend a little more to get the right tool to do the job.

There are some stainless options that add to the bling factor but do nothing else for you. The steel lines are hot galvanized and pretty corrosion-resistant right out of the box. I can make a few mistakes without straining the bank, and there is no temptation to try to straighten a screwed-up expensive line since they aren't expensive.

Making your own curved or fitted lines? Invest in some welding rod, the kind you use for TIG welding. 36" long, you can form the bends over your thumbs to prototype a line before you waste any tubing. Do your mock-ups in TIG rod, do your bending at the bench.

FBIII

I was going to suggest using the nylon tubing for the fuel line. I have seen it used as standard equipment on mid 70's exotics.

dr bob

It won't survive the heat for extended periods. At least with steel, you have a chance to avoid "fueling a fire".

To be fair, there are some multi-carb setups that used copper or platic hose, but none came from an automaker's assembly line with those materials except perhaps on one-off or special cars. Nylon seems to be OK for vacuum lines, and I've seen copper in the same service. Again, I don't think copper was ever used from the factory on any American cars anyway.

FBIII

MY 76 Aston Martin V8 uses nylon gas lines from the factory. It just depends where you route them.

jpitman2

Can we move this copper bashing elsewhere and get back onto MY problem please? I was hoping 7 responses was progress, but it seems not.
Looks like this hasnt been done before? At the worst I may have to leave the return line in place (NOT DROPPING REAR END FOR THIS!) and just replace the pressure side...

jp 83 Euro S AT 49k, hopefully to go further

FlyingDog

Saabs, Volvos, and many other cars have copper fuel lines. I don't recall seeing any copper brake lines, but I never really paid attention to that.

jp, sorry can't help you.

CWO4Mann

Here is a link to Jegs ... you can obtain high pressure braided stainless steel lines and fitings and fittting adapters. Expensive but and interesting alternative to non-flexible. I'm not getting into the discussion about copper vs stainless steel vs galv vs what ever. I've hot-rodded a few cars and built some engine packs. Flex hose would be my choice if I had to snake the hose from the tank to the front.

Here's the link:

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...09&prmenbr=361

Edit -- added an idea:

If you were to pass a flexible wire "snake" up the main fuel line you could use the snake to pull a flexible hose through the chassis as you pull the rigid line out...

FBIII

I had converted a CIS Euro S to US L jet and did it by cutting the Ljet tubing in a couple places so I could get the tubes out without disassembling the rear suspension. Put them back in the other car and spliced it with rubber tubing. I think I was able to do it with two splices.

jpitman2

Seeing as the only part really ratty on the return line is the short hose at the rear, I may see if I can return the new steel+rubber, and just clamp a new rubber piece where needed...That only leaves the hose in the engine bay old, but its low pressure. Externally the old high pressure hose looks to be in pretty good condition....Have a new high pressure hose, so that will go in.
jp 83 Euro S AT 49k

jpitman2

Just to finish this off.....its done. Sort of. The return line CANT be removed without dropping the rear suspension and roll bar AFAI can see, so I didnt do that. I pulled the hose off the end (literally, easily) and clipped a new piece on. Similarly, the pressure line in one piece wont go in at all easily with the engine and rack in place - getting the pipe laced through the transmission cooler lines is bad enough , but trying to fit the front curved up part, with rubber hose fitted, past the intermediate steering shaft finally sealed it for me as no go job. The only guy I could find who had repalced an engine bay rubber hose did it with the engine out. I know this sounds bad, but in the end I cut the supply tube just behind the last front floor support and fitted a joiner. This allowed me to trial fit the rubber section (new) to the pipe going up to the engine bay, make small adjustments to the bend angles until it fitted all the supports well, and then tighten up the joiner. With my new accumulator (courtesy 928International) fitted and all joints done up, I bridged the relay and ran the pump a few minutes. One small weep easily fixed, ran the pump some more, no problems. Hit the starter, and after 8 weeks dead, she fired up first try, barely a second or two cranking. Having proved that it was tight, replaced all the retaining clips and dropped her back to earth. Based on experienced advice, I only hand tightened the pickup filter in the tank, with some anti-seize on the threads, and so far with 15L in it, no signs of leakage.The mud in the bottom of the old tank has to be seen to be believed. Will cut open the filter when I get a chance to see whats in there. Along the way I replaced the rear pressure hose from filter to body pipe, and front pressure hose to engine - the return hose is NLA. Based on the condition of the old hoses, age by itself is NOT a reason to change these hoses IMHO - the engine bay hose showed NO signs of cracking or chafing or any external damage at all. If I can I will get it proof tested to say 200psi - normal working is 75 on a CIS system.

PS. Pic of inside of old tank here will show you why this had to be done....
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/biggle...fd.jpg&.src=ph
jp 83 Euro S AT 49k.