James-man

I have the DE bug and am facing something of a tire budget conundrum.

Financially, my wife has "signed off" on my frequent DE attendance, but that is just about it.

I do not race, and I wish to drive to the track and go. I recently was signed off to run solo and did a fine job of wearing my tires out.

Having the car teched at a shop + DE event fees with the frequency that I am going, there isn't much money left for tires budget wise. Concerns are: can street tires get too easily superheated at the track and have more wear than track tires? I am prepared to buy multiple sets of cheap street tires to get through a season. But is it really more cost effective than getting a tire that is designed for higher temp use, such as a DOT track tire? There are "crossover" brake pads for street/track. How about for tires?

So the question is (assume, say, 12 track days a year):
What do you recommend as the best value for frequent track attendance in terms of $ versus wear?

Since I am still learning and still seek some instruction and based on other threads on readiness to progress to track tires, I don't believe that I NEED track tires. I would enjoy them very much, no doubt, but they cost some bucks and if they do not last they wouldn't make much sense.

Thanks in advance for any insight that you have to offer!

algie928s4

Michelen seems quite big in America-well they did get a lot of publicity, didn't wear out, and the reigning world F1 champion was happy with their performance!!

911Dave

James, the best bang for the buck in dual-purpose tires are Toyo RA-1. They are DOT approved, but are a soft compound for the track. They are extremely popular among those who don't want 2 sets of wheels and tires. They are reasonably priced and will last you probably 15-20 track days plus street driving in between (depending on your alignment and how hard you are on tires, of course). Their biggest drawback is they don't do so well (hydroplane) in heavy rain.

mark kibort

RA1s are amazing! full tread will give you good wet road holding too! very very sticky and for some reason, they last 4x longer than a hoosier or other race tire!
MK

Dennis K

Given your description, Toyo RA-1's perfectly fit your requirements. Also, Tirerack is closing out Dunlop SP Super Sport Race's for $120 for 235/40/18 and 265/35/18 right now. If you're running those sizes, it might be worth considering. They are R-compounds that have similar longevity to RA-1's but aren't quite as sticky. You can't beat them for <1/2 the price of the RA-1's.

Let me say though, if you're just starting out there's absolutely nothing wrong with using plain ole street tires. Generally I've noticed folks who stay on street tires longer end up developing better skills, rather than depending on sticky tires to drop laptimes. If you're running street tires and catching people who are using R-compounds in similar cars then that's the time to step up to stickier tires.

UKKid35

I have minimal experience of track days, but I highly recommend that you get a second set of wheels, simply because of the flexibility it gives you. I really don't think it is practical to have true dual purpose tyres, although it may be possible to drive to the track with your track day wheels/tyres fitted if they are DOT approved. Look out for used tyre bargains, I'm assuming you'll be able to find similar deals in the US if you look really hard, this is what I've bought in the last 18 months:

Yoko AVS pair new £90
Hankook Ventus 405 pair new £70
Pirelli PZero "C" pair 6mm £130
Bridgestone S03 pair 7mm £30
ContiSport pair 6mm £40
Bridgestone S02 pair 5mm £15
Yoko A520 pair 5mm £7
Brigdestone S02 set of four 4mm FREE

James-man

I almost never drive in the rain anyhow, so no Prob.

15-20 track days sounds pretty good. I talked to a guy at the track in a camaro or T/A and he liked them.

One question, is 15-20 track days estimate based on a "heavy" 928 or a lighter car. I actually think this matters. Some may recommend a tire that works great for a 914 or a 944, but may not last as long for me.

Thanks.

James-man

True, but I work so close to home, that I put an absolute minimum of street miles on my non-daily driver 928. Weekends tend to be family focused.

I have a set of S dish wheels and S4 dish wheels. So, as it turns out, your advice works well for me.

thank you for your response.

James-man

And I have taken this to heart. At this point in time, I will not switch to track tires unless it makes at least some financial sense.

That said, I have a set of AVS intermediates with less than 6k miles that have been wearing VERY quickly at the track. I had thought that i could make maybe 4 more track days with them this year, but one of them chunked pretty good (I suspect tread separation + hot heavy use). These seemed to be pretty good crossover tires performance wise and price wise, but I just don't see them lasting for many track days - so the dollar value is suspect.

Thanks.

mark kibort

pushing the car to the limit wears the tire out, weight is not much of a factor.

anyway, i drive 3000miles a year on the street on my RA1s, run all my practice and qualifying the RA1s and ive had this set on since last year. they are still good! i always look at them before a weekend and think that they are bald and they wont have grip. one lap proves me wrong! at T-hill, i was .2 seconds off my best time with the Hoosiers.

T-hll is 200miles away, laguna 70 miles, sears 70miles, and lots of street driving. Guess what, i started with them used from speedGT Team Caddie CTSV. they were shaved to 3/32nds. just think how long they would last unshaven (full tread) !
No tire has the performance ive see with the toyos in the DOT family!
MK

Mark Anderson

The Toyo Ra1's are great and if you can use sizes that are used in World Challenge you can get some slightly used ones cheap from John Berget at (262) 740-0180.

James-man

Thanks for your response. I am hearing an overwhelming endorsement of RA-1s.

Since I don't even have a dozen track days under my belt yet, I am still learning. And on the competition and DE forum, there seemed to be a majority opinion that street tires are good for learning and should be used well after going solo. In my opinion, the 928 is faster to learn than a 911 because it is more forgiving and has more intuitive driver control techniques.

For those that suggest RA-1s here, what are your opinions on readiness to progress to track tires?

My mind has not yet been made up. Getting closer though!

Thanks folks!

James-man

Not sure what sizes are used in World Challenge. I would expect that there are not any 16 inch 7-8 wide wheels in that competition catgory.

Mark - you tempt me with additional reason to upgrade wheels, but I do not plan to do that for at least another year or so!

Very nice of you to share that tip with the forum.

Thank you!

GlenL

I'll go with the Yoko DOT competition tires for long wear. Not the best traction compared to, say, Hoosiers. I did get 6 weekends and 3000 street miles out of a set. Drove on them to several events. Last I looked they were getting closed-out on Tire Rack for around $150 a piece.

James-man

Hey Glen,

What car did you have them on? It looks like you have both a 944 and a 928 and it is not clear which one you take to the track.

Thanks!