FlyingDog

As some of you may have noticed, I just completed what has to be one of the longest TB/WP replacement jobs. Start to finish it was about 9 months (not all working of course). Well, I get it done and decide to start working on the clutch (release arm ball cup, throwout bearing, or both?) and the brakes (bad master or crap fluid and air?).

A couple weeks ago I moved to Maryland and the car stayed in Virginia, about 280miles away. Last time I drove down to work on it I got rid of an idle problem (crumbling vacuum lines and a cross-threaded plug thanks to PO), improved the brakes (quickie brake bleed), discovered that I have LSD even though it's not on the option sticker, and discovered that MSDS headers prevent removal of the lower bell housing ( ).

Well, I had it up on jackstands listening for clutch bearing whirring noise and noticed a chirping sound from the engine. As the timing belt walked forward and backward slightly there was a chirp from the (new, less than 50 miles) water pump area. I went home and called Dave Roberts. He said take everything apart and check the bearings and bolts. That's all he could come up with.

Today I drove down in all the 'going back to college' traffic amidst 10s of VA State T(axcollectors)oopers in Impalas, Crown Vics, Caprices, and unmarked Jeep Cherokees. After 4.5 hours of driving I started work. The battery was dead, so I jumped the car. The chirp was still there. I removed the fan, retensioned the timing belt. The chirp was gone, but there was a faint rubbing noise at the same point. I loosened the belt to no tension and loosened the tensioner arm pivot bolt. After double checking the torque (20NM, 15ftlb) in the manual, I set the torque wrench to 8ftlbs... Click! Set the torque wrench to 10ftlbs... SNAP! The tensioner arm bolt snapped right off.

I took a deep breath, checked my watch, hopped in the Jeep and headed up to my friend's house to use the phone. I called 928 Specialists and asked if the shipment had gone out. I could hear Jeannie running around in the background yelling to double check the part number when the UPS truck showed up. The woman I was talking to (Leanne?) said that UPS wouldn't wait for my package. I was supposed to leave tomorrow. The bolt won't get shipped until tomorrow and won't arrive until at least friday morning. If it's not here, the car will have to sit at least 2 more weeks.

Time to find old college friends and

m21sniper

I feel your pain man. Mine's been down about a month now(should be ready be next week though!), and i'm driving some POS 97 Olds Aurora in the meantime.

dr bob

I did the TB/WP swap a few weeks ago now, and had to take a little Brake-Clean to the pin where the tensioner arm pivots. The paint on there was just thick enough keep the bushings from fitting just right. Interesting that the bushings would slide over the pin OK so ling as they weren't in the tensioner arm; Once installed, they were way too snug.

Dr.'s recommendation: Get the old bolt end out of the pin. Since it hasn't had a chance to sit in there and rust, it should come out easily. Remove the tensioner arm from the pin, verify that it's a smooth easy fit, but not loose. If you have to tap the arm onto the pin, that's too tight. If the pin is the same color as the water pump body, it's very possible that it was painted. Try a paper towel wetted with Brake-Clean to remove any paint that might be on there. I used a little synthetic brake caliper slide grease (very heavy, won't melt out onto the belt...) on the pin and inside the bushings before installing the tensioner arm.

The bolt itself just needs to be tight enough to keep the tensoiner arm from sliding off. The 6-8 lb/ft torque spec for 6mm bolts is plenty for that duty. It's also way low on most 3/8" torque wrench scales, so you probably want to down-size to a wrench that reads lb/inches directly. My torque wrenches have +/- 4% accuracey across the whole range, per the calibration guys. Assuming yours are the same, you might easily have an --extra-- 4 to 6 lb/ft of torque at the bottom end of the scale. Calibration accuracy is a percentage of full-scale, not the target or measured value. I think I had the 3/8", the 1/4", and the 3/4" torque wrenches out on the table for this project. Kept the two smaller ones busy the whole time during assembly. Big one got used only once.

Good luck with your project!


PS: Remember that 928 International, on the west coast, is three hours behind you east coasters. The 5PM UPS truck at 928 International is really at 8PM in Virginia. That $1 little bolt goes into an overnight envelope that costs less than $10 I'm sure. Value the next AM in Virgninia? Priceless... More than a few east coasters have written hear about placing an order online or on the phone into the evening, and then seeing the parts show up just after breakfast the next day. [shameless plug for my locall 928 parts therapists...]

Jim bailey - 928 International

Matt I have the bolt ...actually six of them I can still over night it for tomorrow ...always remember the time differential to California.

rixter

unfortunately the price of an overnite package to his area of the east coast is like $30+... why not just hop in the truck and run down to Dave and Jeannies and pick it up?

dr bob

Standard Fed-Ex envelope is about $7 to anywhere in the continental US. Bolt is a snug fit in that envelope, but it will go in there if you squeeze and push it hard enough. Takes about as much effort to get it in there as it does to get my tongue jammed firmly in my cheek...

The run down to Dave and Jeannie's is a great idea, though. No traffic, riding in the Jeep for a few hours, gas is close to $3/gallon, revenooo agents have all turned in for the evening. Or the less-than-$10 delivered to your door solution from Jim. Tough choice.

FlyingDog

Randy, thanks for the title edit.

I didn't think of the time difference. I asked 928 Specialists about next day... $25-30 for morning delivery on friday. Since everything they have shipped ground to me has arrived in 1 day, I'm taking a gamble on time of day.

In the mean time I have replaced the release arm ball cup. It is a challenge with the MSDS headers preventing removal of the lower bell housing. The housing restricts how much you can move the release arm to get it out of the way.

After trying Liquid Wrench and PB Blaster on the water jacket plugs with no succes previously, I tried Kroil. After sitting a few hours, a couple light (really, they were light) hammer taps on a 15" breaker bar popped the passenger side right off. A little Kroil loosened all the diff cover bolts with almost no force needed.

Tomorrow will be brakes and clutch day whether or not the bolt comes. When the bolt does come, I'll check on the excess paint issue dr bob mentioned. The remainder of the old bolt turns with vise grips and no effort. It must have been cracked all ready and was just waiting to snap. Luckily it didn't snap while running.

PS: I did consider driving to 928 Specialists or Charlotte (nearest Porsche dealer I think) for the bolt. The gas price killed that idea. I wish I'd bought a Jetta TDI!

Mongo

Even thinking about doing my own timing belt on my S4 scares the bejesus outta me Reading the DIYs on many sites don't make it look hard, just tedious. Many props to you for the determination to undertake the job! What tool are you using to tension the belts?

PB Blaster is a lifesaver on these cars, let it sit for a couple hours penetrating and it feels like the bolts on the car were torqued to like 3 ft lbs.

Good luck on your brakes and clutch tomorrow.

Oldtee

You have your email disabled. E mail me, I may have a offer you may not want to pass up.

rixter

Matt,
I may be going to VA tomorrow... if NEEDED I can take the long way if you can meet me in D'ville

dr bob

Andy-

The TB job is less tedious than the motor mounts in my now-informed opinion. Motor mounts take extra time due to Stupid Stuff. That job will be a lot faster if I live long enough to need it again.

Meanwhile, the TB job can be done in a hurry with two working on it, less than a day if you have all the parts on hand. When I did mine, I dropped an e-mail to Jim at 928 International asking for a box with everything I was going to need. The 'kit' came with the standard stuff, plus a few pieces I would not have thought to order but really did need in the end. Take advantage of your vendors' knowledge and experience.

After that part, this is just procedural good mechanic stuff. There are several good guides published on the web. I started off with John Pirtle's excellent guide, and took the extra step of turning on the video camera for proof that I actually did the work. Oh yeah... Anyway, I did the whole job is 16 working hrs over the course of about a a week, including all the video camera setups and retakes. The job is half that amount of time in actual work. Gotta work slowly, narrate and explain why things are, etc. no power tools, etc. Should be a good supplement to the printed guides once I get around to doing the editing and voice-overs. Gotta get a couple words of enthusiasm stricken from the soundtrack to avoid a PG-13 rating. I suspect that I'll end up with about 4 hours of video by the time I'm done. Pulling the air ducts off, draining the coolant, pulling the radiator hoses will be collapsed into a 30-second narration. Refiling the coolant after installing the new hoses will be included, though.

My point through all this is that you can easily do this job yourself. You risk having somebody else learn the job on your car if you farm it out. You risk having that mechanic take some shortcuts that you might not really be interested in having. Self-performing this project gives you the option to do a lot more cleaninig and painting on removed parts if you like that sort of thing.

Keith W. in the SoCal group has done sevaral of these jobs and has offered to support locals who decide to tackle this themselves. I make the same offer. Similarly Bill Ball has become the TB DIY guru in the SF bay area, but his rates may be higher than my pizza-and-cookies fee.

The tool list is not that extensive, with the exception of the 3/4" drive tools to remove and replace the crank pulley bolt, plus the flywheel lock and the belt tension gauge. Otherwise it's sockets, wrenches, screwdrivers, torque wrenches. Both Keith and I have the 'otherwise' list of things, and they are available on a loan basis at least from me. If there wasn't the part about working on a hot engine, I'd suggest that you stop by on a Saturday morning with the box-o-parts, drive it home Saturday afternoon late.

m21sniper

"The TB job is less tedious than the motor mounts in my now-informed opinion."

Way, way easier.

I agree with Dr. Bob, 100%.

Mongo

Thanks Dr. Bob for the incentive in that post

My second more serious task coming up is valve covers. I'm also having an idle issue I'm tracing to an MAF that might be going 'der kaput'

Slowly but surely I'm learning to work on my 928 What's even more helpful is the fact that I have posession of the factory shop manuals. Someday I'll undertake a timing belt job

Bill Ball

Yep, I require free sodas too.

Mongo

uh oh bad news Bill, Beer is my only form of currency